Bidding Strangeness - More Probstein123

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At that price level, he was just bumping it along, not seriously shilling it.

Is this new shilling verbage? Bumping it along...is this accceptable behavior?

Now we're just categorizing degrees of crookery?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Is this new shilling verbage? Bumping it along...is this accceptable behavior?

Now we're just categorizing degrees of crookery?

It's like going 56 in a 55 MPH zone or going 75. Both are illegal, but....

[cincyredlegs]

First off, very nice Chase. I saw that card last night and was going to bid until I saw it was Probstein. He had several really nice T206's but I just can't bear to bid on any of his auctions. For me, it's just the principle.

Mark

[kamikidEFFL]

I've purchased some cards from him and I have looked at who's bidding but seems I'm getting very reasonable prices and the shipping is super fast. Idk maybe I'm missing something here

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by kamikidEFFL

I've purchased some cards from him and I have looked at who's bidding but seems I'm getting very reasonable prices and the shipping is super fast. Idk maybe I'm missing something here

I've only made 1 purchase from him that I can remember (actually it was 3 different T213s all won within about 4 minutes of each other). I thought the ending prices were pretty good and you're right about the fast shipping.

I don't doubt the evidence people have put forth regarding shill bidding in his auctions. I'm just saying that my experience was a good one.

[Exhibitman]

Call it whatever you want--safety bid, hidden reserve, shilling--it is all wrong, all criminal behavior. No different than what Mark Theotikos just pleaded guilty to doing. It hurts the winners of the inflated lots, it hurts the data compilers and commentators like me who rely on final values for market analysis, and it hurts the honest auctioneers who cannot compete with the results of shilled auctions when trying to lure consignments.

As far as I am concerned Probstein is no different than a fence. Just because he isn't doing the stealing himself--just providing a ready market for the crooks to operate in while he turns a blind eye to the thievery even when it is brought to his attention--doesn't relieve him of culpability. Or let me put it another way: as one of the biggest sellers on eBay, do you really believe that Probstein could not complain to eBay about these shenanigans and get some real action on this issue, get some bidders banned, perhaps even convince eBay that it needs to push the FBI to open a criminal investigation? But he won't as long as the bidders keep bidding and the money keeps churning. He'll just shrug and say he is powerless while all the while profiting from the illegality. And there is the key to it all: you want change, don't ask for it from the people who profit from the fraud, hit them where it hurts instead: stop doing business with people whose business ethics sicken you. We shouldn't be seeing any more of these "I bid with Probstein; look at the shilling" threads. And this is not a specific shot at the OP, so please don't take it that way, more a general observation that no one who cares about Probstein's auction issues has any business doing business with him.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Call it whatever you want--safety bid, hidden reserve, shilling--it is all wrong, all criminal behavior. No different than what Mark Theotikos just pleaded guilty to doing. It hurts the winners of the inflated lots, it hurts the data compilers and commentators like me who rely on final values for market analysis, and it hurts the honest auctioneers who cannot compete with the results of shilled auctions when trying to lure consignments.

As far as I am concerned Probstein is no different than a fence. Just because he isn't doing the stealing himself--just providing a ready market for the crooks to operate in while he turns a blind eye to the thievery even when it is brought to his attention--doesn't relieve him of culpability. Or let me put it another way: as one of the biggest sellers on eBay, do you really believe that Probstein could not complain to eBay about these shenanigans and get some real action on this issue, get some bidders banned, perhaps even convince eBay that it needs to push the FBI to open a criminal investigation? But he won't as long as the bidders keep bidding and the money keeps churning. He'll just shrug and say he is powerless while all the while profiting from the illegality. And there is the key to it all: you want change, don't ask for it from the people who profit from the fraud, hit them where it hurts instead: stop doing business with people whose business ethics sicken you. We shouldn't be seeing any more of these "I bid with Probstein; look at the shilling" threads. And this is not a specific shot at the OP, so please don't take it that way, more a general observation that no one who cares about Probstein's auction issues has any business doing business with him.

Well said.. I'm just curious, I wonder how many threads have been on this forum pertaining Probstein?? A hundred? Bottom line, if you are uncomfortable, leave his auctions alone... This topic goes on constantly pertaining Auction houses...Probstein, PWCC, Heritage, Legendary, Sportscards Plus, Mile High, etc...It just goes on and on, and then some...What do we attain from it all?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Is this new shilling verbage? Bumping it along...is this accceptable behavior?

Now we're just categorizing degrees of crookery?

This was only misdemeanor shilling - not felony shilling.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

This was only misdemeanor shilling - not felony shilling.

nice!