Paypal Family and Friends Payment Problem Anyone else??

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

If you aren't comfortable with the seller refunding you should something happen (ie: trust the seller to do the right thing regardless of the circumstances) then don't pay a method that is supposed to 'unrefundable'. It's that simple. There is nothing more to it. F&F Should be considered handing someone cash assuming and hoping they will do the right thing - nothing more, nothing less.

I will banter more tomorrow.

Sean

Sean:

AGAIN. I am the SELLER. As I said in the above I am the RECIPIENT. The BUYER who paid ME through F&F has not received the package and has filed with paypal and has put a hold on my $$

I look forward to your banter

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Sean:

AGAIN. I am the SELLER. As I said in the above I am the RECIPIENT. The BUYER who paid ME through F&F has not received the package and has filed with paypal and has put a hold on my $$

I look forward to your banter

Out the buyer... What Mr. Chen said is correct - the only real way to recall F&F is to initiate a credit card charge back. That is not a case that can ever be won. I recently lost one even though I did everything to paypals exact standards (shipped correctly, uploaded tracking correctly etc). If the buyer calls up their credit card company and tells them that they didn't make the transaction then the selling party is SOL.

Did theirs specifically say it was for goods or was the payment made completely blank (basic fields, nothing typed). I have a feeling if they were able to file a normal case then they may not have payed F&F - just regular and covered the fees on their end (this is possible). I would need to actually physically see the payment details on Paypal to help out much further.

[glchen]

I've unfortunately been involved in a number of charge back and ebay/paypal issues these days, but very luckily have managed to land right side up for them so far.

For the issue in this case, from my experience (not sure what happened in Sean's), you can still win your case as long as your item shows delivered to the customer w/ his signature. You will have 21 business days from the day the item was shipped for the package to be delivered (or at least attemped delivery). Hopefully if the Post Office doesn't screw up here, you'll be okay in the end.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by glchen

I've unfortunately been involved in a number of charge back and ebay/paypal issues these days, but very luckily have managed to land right side up for them so far.

For the issue in this case, from my experience (not sure what happened in Sean's), you can still win your case as long as your item shows delivered to the customer w/ his signature. You will have 21 business days from the day the item was shipped for the package to be delivered (or at least attemped delivery). Hopefully if the Post Office doesn't screw up here, you'll be okay in the end.

Gary:

What one of my original questions was is what happens if the P.O. does not deliver the package? I have all the tracking info I can supply to paypal, but if the package does not get there will paypal refund the buyer under protection plan even if paid via F&F?

[glchen]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Gary:

What one of my original questions was is what happens if the P.O. does not deliver the package? I have all the tracking info I can supply to paypal, but if the package does not get there will paypal refund the buyer under protection plan even if paid via F&F?

If the Post Office does not deliver the package, you probably shouldn't expect your money back, let me just say that. As the sender of the package, you will need to go to the Post Office to collect the insurance for non-delivery.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by glchen

If the Post Office does not deliver the package, you probably shouldn't expect your money back, let me just say that. As the sender of the package, you will need to go to the Post Office to collect the insurance for non-delivery.

Gary and Tom:

Thanks for the replies.

Gary, I did not expect to keep the payment if the package was not delivered.

I just thought that this is, as Tom noted, a post office problem that paypal should not have gotten involved in.

I figured I would file a claim with P.O. and refund the buyers money from the P.O.insurance payment.

However because the buyer initiated a claim with pypal, it now is. Even though payment was through F&F which we all thought (think?) has no claims.

So, now paypal keeps my money, refunds it to the buyer then as Tom notes the package shows up before my claim with the P.O. comes through and I am out the $$ and the items if the buyer is not on the up and up and repays me.

This may be a strategy of the buyer once he knew the package was lost. I saw no other reason he would start a claim with paypal so soon without waiting to see what the P.O. looking into the lost package turned up.

[glchen]

Right, Fred, it's as you said. F&F just means that neither side should expect Paypal protection, but it doesn't mean that Paypal can't get involved like it did here. (Paypal will probably limit both parties accounts going forward. However, you can probably just establish a new paypal account under your wife's info (or someone else in your family) and a new bank account if you need to.)

What you'll need to do to prevent the scenario that you mentioned above is to contact the Post Office and find out what is the soonest that you can file an insurance claim for a package not being delivered, and do that as soon as you possibly can. The last thing you want to happen is for the Post Office to deliver the package after paypal pays the claim out of your pocket. Then the Post Office would not reimburse you. I'm not a lawyer and have no clue what I'm saying here, but if that situation did occur, the buyer may be guilty of mail fraud, and you may be able to do something there.

[autograf]

Fred.....the post office is the one who should pay. They are the weak link here. The buyer paid. You shipped. Your agent, the post office, didn't deliver. They should be of the hook. As the shipper, you will have to file the claim to get the money back. You will need the receipt from them and some form of proof of what the buyer paid like the paypal transaction and some other documentation to establish the goods in the package. Paypal shouldn't have to pay anything on this. A bummer that they have tied your funds up. If, for some reason, they refund the buyer and it still doesn't get delivered, file the claim with the post office and you will get the $2K in your pocket. If paypal refunds them and subsequently the package gets delivered, you are screwed on that one.......good luck!

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Out the buyer... What Mr. Chen said is correct - the only real way to recall F&F is to initiate a credit card charge back. That is not a case that can ever be won. I recently lost one even though I did everything to paypals exact standards (shipped correctly, uploaded tracking correctly etc). If the buyer calls up their credit card company and tells them that they didn't make the transaction then the selling party is SOL.

Did theirs specifically say it was for goods or was the payment made completely blank (basic fields, nothing typed). I have a feeling if they were able to file a normal case then they may not have payed F&F - just regular and covered the fees on their end (this is possible). I would need to actually physically see the payment details on Paypal to help out much further.

Sean:

The buyer did say what the payment was for in the message section. I do not know if he paid by CC or checking account or paypal balance. You said if you saw the payment details you could help. See below. I have redacted the buyers name my email and the description of the items sold and the transaction ID #.

Mobile Payment Received (Unique Transaction ID # )




Original Transaction
Date Type Status Details Gross Fee Net
Apr 25, 2014 Payment From Held ... $2,000.00 USD $0.00 USD $2,000.00 USD


Related Transaction
Date Type Status Details Gross Fee Net
May 5, 2014 The funds are not available while this transaction is being reviewed Placed We'll complete the refund as soon as your original payment is processed by the bank.
We'll complete the refund as soon as your original payment is processed by the bank. Details -$2,000.00 USD $0.00 USD -$2,000.00 USD
Total: $0.00 USD $0.00 USD $0.00 USD


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sent by:
(The sender of this payment is Verified)
Payment sent to:


Total amount:
$2,000.00 USD
Fee amount:
$0.00 USD
Net amount:
$2,000.00 USD


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:
Apr 25, 2014
Time:
16:18:31 PDT
Status:
Held

[Sean1125]

If anyone ever receives a gift or F&F (whatever you want to call it) and the buyer notates what it is for simple refund the payment and let them know they should either leave the fields blank (just type in dollar amount and send) - or cover the fees and pay normally.

There is NOT supposed to be any protection for the buying party in F&F so members shouldn't send it if they don't completely trust the other party.

Being this buyer notated it, I would have refunded him completely and told him I can only accept regular and to tack on the 3% - there should never be any exceptions to this rule, this is why paypal disables accounts.

There's really nothing you can do other than claim you didn't know it was F&F and hope they receive the item.

If the buyer is a member here, please please out them.

[whiteymet]

To answer some of the questions above:

The package was sent Priority mail insured not registered.

It was scheduled to be delivered April 28th. It has not moved since that date.

Sean, as I believe I mentoned before, the buyer is not on Net54

Still hoping it shows up.

[whiteymet]

For those who wonder...

Paypal just refunded $2000 to my buyer after he filed a claim after having paid via family and friends.

So much for buyers sending funds that way having no "protection"

The package was found by the P.O. and just returned to me. For some reason they said the address was not found even though I used the same address before!

But the kicker is, the buyer now does not want me to resend it. He says there is "bad karma" with the whole thing!!!

Guess I won't be doing business with him again!

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

For those who wonder...

Paypal just refunded $2000 to my buyer after he filed a claim after having paid via family and friends.

So much for buyers sending funds that way having no "protection"

The package was found by the P.O. and just returned to me. For some reason they said the address was not found even though I used the same address before!

But the kicker is, the buyer now does not want me to resend it. He says there is "bad karma" with the whole thing!!!

Guess I won't be doing business with him again!

Wow! That was an adventure. I suppose it could have ended uglier though. As long as there are no residual Pay Pal heartaches, you just have to go through the re-selling game.