The "auction" (for lack of a better word) is over. Look at what happened.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by MattyC

So is the answer, by that logic, to stop collecting? I agree the criminals are out there, that we have to be able to identify and steer around shilled auctions, but one can't let awareness of the fraud paralyze them from enjoyment, of from obtaining the items they love. There has to be a balance within the collector.

Where did you come up with such logic? From 'avoid known cheats' to 'avoid everyone'? The balance you speak of is achieved by avoiding dishonest sellers. Many of us do so, and our collections are not bad.

I have not studied PWCC or Probstein's auctions and bidding history, and I have ignored most of the posts that do so, but it's hard to ignore the responses in these discussions that advocate complacency when shilling is discovered.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Where did you come up with such logic? From 'avoid known cheats' to 'avoid everyone'? The balance you speak of is achieved by avoiding dishonest sellers. Many of us do so, and our collections are not bad.

I have not studied PWCC or Probstein's auctions and bidding history, and I have ignored most of the posts that do so, but it's hard to ignore the responses in these discussions that advocate complacency when shilling is discovered.

Scott, that logic is just an attempt to address the notion that all or many prices are inflated because of past shilling. And therefore, if one doesn't want to be a victim of shilling, and yet many prices even in unshilled auctions are in effect "retroactively shilled," if you will, then it becomes a slippery slope.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Scott, that logic is just an attempt to address the notion that all or many prices are inflated because of past shilling. And therefore, if one doesn't want to be a victim of shilling, and yet many prices even in unshilled auctions are in effect "retroactively shilled," if you will, then it becomes a slippery slope.

I don't agree that shilling is driving up prices in all auctions, and I have avoided such discussions. But if that could be proven to be true, it would be ludicrous to avoid honest sellers because their prices have benefited from others who cheat. It would also be ludicrous to say that it's okay to bid on items sold by those who cheat, since the honest sellers benefit as well. I can't buy any such logic.

If you are an ebay customer you have the power to cast a vote against cheating by not bidding on items sold by such sellers, and also by voicing your opinion in public forums. Eventually it could change things - it worked with some of the large auction houses and I see no reason why ebay shouldn't also eventually be held accountable for tolerating illegal activities.

If you have a problem avoiding stuff you really want, that's being sold by questionable sellers, then simply don't ever view their auctions. I do this with several major auction houses, and with several ebay sellers - I simply use the advanced search setting to remove them, and they could have the coolest stuff in the world and I would never know it. I do the same with a few AH's by throwing their catalogs in the recycle bin without opening.

[chernieto]

[QUOTE=Runscott;1272826]
If you are an ebay customer you have the power to cast a vote against cheating by not bidding on items sold by such sellers, and also by voicing your opinion in public forums.

just be careful if you choose to voice your opinion on a public forum you may be attacked for doing so

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by chernieto

just be careful if you choose to voice your opinion on a public forum you may be attacked for doing so

I'm sure ebay wants to know how we feel about their policies. It doesn't mean they will change them, but any information from your customers is good to have.