Is it still possible to build a pre-war collection while avoiding TPGs altogether?

[Sean1125]

Yes, but I believe many cards would need to be purchased slabbed since you simply couldn't find them outside of it. Many of the "big" cards.

[Rich Klein]

Of course you can create a pre-war collectyion without TPG, but as Sean says, some cards you would feel much better off when slabbed. I pikced up a few f-g T206's in trade this week, they don't need slabbing but if they were better, I might have thought about that way.

[steve_a]

I think the likelihood of acquiring any significant card, let alone set, without cracking out TPG slabs is small to none. Every buyer needs a willing seller and sellers maximize value by slabbing their cards. The AH slab consignments and purchased collections. The economics will continue to dry up the raw inventory.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The more frightening part of VBCC 7 (I think it was a separate article) was the interview about card doctoring.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The more frightening part of VBCC 7 (I think it was a separate article) was the interview about card doctoring.

Yes and this is why this issue is so coveted!

[Peter_Spaeth]

"Daniel Paul" LOL. Damn he was good though. Set the bar for a whole generation of card doctors.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The more frightening part of VBCC 7 (I think it was a separate article) was the interview about card doctoring.

Yup, good memory, Peter. It's the article directly following the one about the TPGs. The article name is "True and Open Card Restoration: An Idea Whose Time Has Come?" I haven't started it yet, but looking at the examples of cards restored by this person, I think "frightening" is an apropos description.

This magazine is proving to be well worth the $17.98. Between V&CBC and Old Cardboard's back issues, I have a lot of great reading to look forward to.

[MattyC]

I don't really see the grading companies selling the cards they slab these days. I definitely would not feel just using a nearly 20 year old article as the basis to decry grading as a whole. That said, it is enlightening stuff and raises valuable questions, for sure. I personally don't see the sheer act of grading (and subsequent increase in value) as price manipulation. I wonder why one would get "really angry" at the sheer existence of a TPG? Cards shouldn't make any collector angry; if they ever made me really angry, then it's time for me to find a new hobby That advertisement strikes me as a company hawking their wares and making a sales pitch; no surprises there.

One can't have it both ways; on the one hand those cards referenced in the advert would only have cost a collector of raw a mere $290. Whereas slabbed they cost the collector of slabbed much more. Are they worth more cash slabbed because of the collectors in that market and what they are willing to pay? Sure. But it seems to me the raw collector there has the edge-- he could have bought and owned the raw, enjoyed them, and if ready to ever sell, had them graded. Every slabbed card, after all, began as a raw card. Now if the raw collector wants that card that has been slabbed and is expecting to pay a raw price, well, as Austin powers would say, 'That train has sailed.' The card has been converted from raw to slabbed and if it was that nice to become a very pricey card, good for whoever found it raw and first had it graded.

The way I see it, no one is forcing anyone to buy anything they don't want. The fact is that buyers clearly feel more comfortable with some type of third-party standard in place. There are guys that swear by and agree no matter what with that standard, and there are guys that in effect grade the graders, ponying up only when a card is accurately or under graded (I fall in the latter category).

If someone is comfortable buying raw and has the eye to detect trimming and the like, I've seen great amounts of raw available and some really nice, affable, knowledgable dealers of raw at shows. So I'm sure it is quite possible. It's all about enjoyment and what gives one pleasure.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by MattyC

If someone is comfortable buying raw and has the eye to detect trimming and the like, I've seen great amounts of raw available and some really nice, affable, knowledgeable dealers of raw at shows. So I'm sure it is quite possible. It's all about enjoyment and what gives one pleasure.

To expand on this, it's very possible to collect only raw, but not if on-line is your primary source of acquisition. Tons of nice raw stuff at good shows, sometimes 80%+ of the room....but anyone selling on-line is going to get their stuff slabbed - the online buyers want it, and they typically sell for more.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I definitely would not feel just using a nearly 20 year old article as the basis to decry grading as a whole.

Many of the points made in the article are as valid today as they were when the magazine was published.

Doug

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by steve_a

I think the likelihood of acquiring any significant card, let alone set, without cracking out TPG slabs is small to none. Every buyer needs a willing seller and sellers maximize value by slabbing their cards. The AH slab consignments and purchased collections. The economics will continue to dry up the raw inventory.

Absolutely! The TPG lends at least some protection to an on-line transaction, where you can't examine the dot pattern or edges, or blue-light the card. If I'm spending at least into the hundreds, it's going to be a graded example,although eye appeal comes before technical grade for me. If you are attracted to it when you buy it, chances are a prospective buyer will be also in the event you sell, and the converse is just as true.

Interesting post. Best to all,

Larry