Mystery Solved - Pinpointing the dates of W590 cards

[paul]

Gary, you've obviously done far more work on this than me. I had never even considered the possibility of a third printing. It seems strange that there would be only one player (Hornsby) uniquely identified to a 1928 printing, but maybe the 1928s are just very rare. Hopefully, more people will chime in with scans. I may have been a bit premature with my title "Mystery Solved".

[danmckee]

This thread ruined my day bigtime! I was about 6 cards away from a set but am missing a crap load that are listed as "former"

Ugh!

Thanks a lot Gary

[nolemmings]

I think it might be worse Dan. As I look at that list, it seems that every player there could have two cards, not just the players where it's been confirmed. Each subject was playing in 1925, meaning every one could have a card saying "former __", team change or, if the guy had played for the same team the whole 6 years, just a font change.

There are 41 subjects? It looks like they used the exact same sheet for each printing, and just changed the captions and the fonts. It's strange no one here has confirmed the Roy Spencer card, but it seems doubtful they would have a sheet or strip configuration of 41, unless the 42nd space was used for some sort of header. Otherwise I suppose they never produced a Spencer card, and the right count is 40.

The Burns could have been a corrected error, as he did play for the Giants through 1921, and who knows, maybe there's a third Hornsby out there. Happy hunting!

[ValKehl]

I wonder if there are any other variations of WaJo that exist - seems plausible to me as Johnson was managing Newark in 1928 and Washington in 1929 & 1931.
Val

[paul]

It seems like there also should be a Ty Cobb "former outfielder" variation. The 1931s are very tough to find, though, so maybe none survived or maybe one is lurking out there somewhere.

[68Hawk]

paid in the $80 - $120 range a few years back for this one.....hope the essence of this thread hold true...

[IMG][/IMG]

[spec]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I think it might be worse Dan. As I look at that list, it seems that every player there could have two cards, not just the players where it's been confirmed. Each subject was playing in 1925, meaning every one could have a card saying "former __", team change or, if the guy had played for the same team the whole 6 years, just a font change.

There are 41 subjects? It looks like they used the exact same sheet for each printing, and just changed the captions and the fonts. It's strange no one here has confirmed the Roy Spencer card, but it seems doubtful they would have a sheet or strip configuration of 41, unless the 42nd space was used for some sort of header. Otherwise I suppose they never produced a Spencer card, and the right count is 40.

The Burns could have been a corrected error, as he did play for the Giants through 1921, and who knows, maybe there's a third Hornsby out there. Happy hunting!

The Burns (NY Giants) W590 shows him as a coach and thus should be 6b, not 7c, on the master list. I can also confirm the other variations listed as Standard Catalog only, with the exception, of course, of Roy Spencer, who probably does not exist. Presumably W590s were issued in strips of 10, like their cousins, W580 boxers, athletes, presidents and movie stars. Four of my W590s have numbers in the left margin (Burns-Clev. 10, Grimm 11, Kelly 12 and Young 15), likely the numbers of the strips.

[mybuddyinc]

For what's it's worth , all the Boxing W590's I've owned or seen, fall into the "1925 - Player name in bold, Position (weight-class) not bold" group.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by spec

The Burns (NY Giants) W590 shows him as a coach and thus should be 6b, not 7c, on the master list. I can also confirm the other variations listed as Standard Catalog only, with the exception, of course, of Roy Spencer, who probably does not exist. Presumably W590s were issued in strips of 10, like their cousins, W580 boxers, athletes, presidents and movie stars. Four of my W590s have numbers in the left margin (Burns-Clev. 10, Grimm 11, Kelly 12 and Young 15), likely the numbers of the strips.

Great discussion so far guys. Kudos to the ones doing the heavy lifting on this stuff so we can all benefit. I am not sure about how many were in strips but maybe different years came different ways?

[h2oya311]

Or perhaps the second image is simply the right hand portion of rows 8, 9, 10, and 11.

Edited to add: although it looks like the top border is quite a bit larger in your first strip example vs. the second. Are there any discernible differences b/w those 5 common player images? I didn't see any.

[spec]

Originally Posted by Leon

Great discussion so far guys. Kudos to the ones doing the heavy lifting on this stuff so we can all benefit. I am not sure about how many were in strips but maybe different years came different ways?

It's worth noting that Leon's 5x4 block of W590s has 2 baseball players on the same row as 3 boxers. That suggests there were not 4 purely baseball strips. Thus, the elusive Mr. Spencer seems more plausible, though still unlikely.
Does anyone have an unchanged player, like Gehrig, with caption in the thinner type face (I don't)? If not, the lighter font may have been used only for players with changed captions, just as the caption variations in E97 were unique.

[nolemmings]

It's worth noting that Leon's 5x4 block of W590s has 2 baseball players on the same row as 3 boxers. That suggests there were not 4 purely baseball strips.

I noticed that too.

Also, it looks as if Todt and/or Wheat are not in the same strip row.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by spec

The Burns (NY Giants) W590 shows him as a coach and thus should be 6b, not 7c, on the master list. I can also confirm the other variations listed as Standard Catalog only, with the exception, of course, of Roy Spencer, who probably does not exist. Presumably W590s were issued in strips of 10, like their cousins, W580 boxers, athletes, presidents and movie stars. Four of my W590s have numbers in the left margin (Burns-Clev. 10, Grimm 11, Kelly 12 and Young 15), likely the numbers of the strips.

Thanks for this info! I've updated the Master Checklist.