Mystery Solved - Pinpointing the dates of W590 cards

[steve B]

Really interesting.

One thing I notice that might be nothing since I'm not familiar with the set is that the captioning on the Lindstrom and the Collins White Sox is different from the others, having the team name spelled out rather than city and league.

Maybe a few runs, but still ones that can be told apart from each other?

Steve B

[glchen]

I think that based on the font theory, the years of issue would be:

1925 - Player name in bold, Position not bold
1928/29 - Player name in bold, Position in bold
1931 - Player name not bold, Position not bold

I've updated the checklist based on the cards I own (or have owned in the past), and what Paul has shown based on these fonts. If anyone else has a card that has a different font than what is shown in the checklist for that Player/Team/Position, please let me know, and I'll update the checklist.

Based upon this, I believe the Gehrig card should be a 1925 year of issue. I've attached a picture of a Gehrig that I owned in the past.

A couple of other interesting things. First, as Brian pointed out to me, the "Former" designation on the position means that the player had retired when the set was issued.

Also, there are two "George Burns" players in the set, with the same name. One was a 1st baseman and the other was an outfielder. If there is a New York card for this player, then he could be the only player with 3 different cards in this set since the George Burns Outfielder never played for a New York team after 1925.

Edit: Note that in the Master Checklist for George Burns - New York, I also listed 1911-21 as his playing days, and this would only be for the George Burns - Outfielder variation and not the 1B one. However, I only did this for completeness, since 1921 is well before the generally accepted 1925 date of issue for the W590 set.

Edit2: From post 14 in this thread, a board member has definitely shown that the George Burns - New York card is the same player as the George Burns - Outfielder variation, and when Burns was a coach for the New York Giants in 1931. I have updated the Master Checklist accordingly.

[paul]

Gary, you've obviously done far more work on this than me. I had never even considered the possibility of a third printing. It seems strange that there would be only one player (Hornsby) uniquely identified to a 1928 printing, but maybe the 1928s are just very rare. Hopefully, more people will chime in with scans. I may have been a bit premature with my title "Mystery Solved".

[danmckee]

This thread ruined my day bigtime! I was about 6 cards away from a set but am missing a crap load that are listed as "former"

Ugh!

Thanks a lot Gary

[nolemmings]

I think it might be worse Dan. As I look at that list, it seems that every player there could have two cards, not just the players where it's been confirmed. Each subject was playing in 1925, meaning every one could have a card saying "former __", team change or, if the guy had played for the same team the whole 6 years, just a font change.

There are 41 subjects? It looks like they used the exact same sheet for each printing, and just changed the captions and the fonts. It's strange no one here has confirmed the Roy Spencer card, but it seems doubtful they would have a sheet or strip configuration of 41, unless the 42nd space was used for some sort of header. Otherwise I suppose they never produced a Spencer card, and the right count is 40.

The Burns could have been a corrected error, as he did play for the Giants through 1921, and who knows, maybe there's a third Hornsby out there. Happy hunting!

[ValKehl]

I wonder if there are any other variations of WaJo that exist - seems plausible to me as Johnson was managing Newark in 1928 and Washington in 1929 & 1931.
Val

[paul]

It seems like there also should be a Ty Cobb "former outfielder" variation. The 1931s are very tough to find, though, so maybe none survived or maybe one is lurking out there somewhere.

[spec]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I think it might be worse Dan. As I look at that list, it seems that every player there could have two cards, not just the players where it's been confirmed. Each subject was playing in 1925, meaning every one could have a card saying "former __", team change or, if the guy had played for the same team the whole 6 years, just a font change.

There are 41 subjects? It looks like they used the exact same sheet for each printing, and just changed the captions and the fonts. It's strange no one here has confirmed the Roy Spencer card, but it seems doubtful they would have a sheet or strip configuration of 41, unless the 42nd space was used for some sort of header. Otherwise I suppose they never produced a Spencer card, and the right count is 40.

The Burns could have been a corrected error, as he did play for the Giants through 1921, and who knows, maybe there's a third Hornsby out there. Happy hunting!

The Burns (NY Giants) W590 shows him as a coach and thus should be 6b, not 7c, on the master list. I can also confirm the other variations listed as Standard Catalog only, with the exception, of course, of Roy Spencer, who probably does not exist. Presumably W590s were issued in strips of 10, like their cousins, W580 boxers, athletes, presidents and movie stars. Four of my W590s have numbers in the left margin (Burns-Clev. 10, Grimm 11, Kelly 12 and Young 15), likely the numbers of the strips.

[mybuddyinc]

For what's it's worth , all the Boxing W590's I've owned or seen, fall into the "1925 - Player name in bold, Position (weight-class) not bold" group.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by spec

The Burns (NY Giants) W590 shows him as a coach and thus should be 6b, not 7c, on the master list. I can also confirm the other variations listed as Standard Catalog only, with the exception, of course, of Roy Spencer, who probably does not exist. Presumably W590s were issued in strips of 10, like their cousins, W580 boxers, athletes, presidents and movie stars. Four of my W590s have numbers in the left margin (Burns-Clev. 10, Grimm 11, Kelly 12 and Young 15), likely the numbers of the strips.

Great discussion so far guys. Kudos to the ones doing the heavy lifting on this stuff so we can all benefit. I am not sure about how many were in strips but maybe different years came different ways?

[glchen]

Originally Posted by spec

The Burns (NY Giants) W590 shows him as a coach and thus should be 6b, not 7c, on the master list. I can also confirm the other variations listed as Standard Catalog only, with the exception, of course, of Roy Spencer, who probably does not exist. Presumably W590s were issued in strips of 10, like their cousins, W580 boxers, athletes, presidents and movie stars. Four of my W590s have numbers in the left margin (Burns-Clev. 10, Grimm 11, Kelly 12 and Young 15), likely the numbers of the strips.

Thanks for this info! I've updated the Master Checklist.