Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Section103

So the only difference between water and hydrogen peroxide is "one little oxygen atom"? Yeah, lets see the line of people willing to drink a glass of hydrogen peroxide.

If only baseball cards were made of living cells, this difference might matter.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

If only baseball cards were made of living cells, this difference might matter.

So, since they aren't, bleaching them with hydrogen peroxide is the same as soaking them in water?

I'm picturing two T206 collectors crawling through the desert, dying of thirst. They come upon a huge vat of hydrogen peroxide. The one who studied basket-weaving exclaims: "This is more water than we can possibly drink, and with all the extra oxygen, we should be able to jog out of this desert!!!"


To T206collector: This is all harmless fun. Please do not take offense, as I get what you are saying. I just don't think you chose a great example to support your argument.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Paul how do you feel about a trim that can't be detected by a grading company in their normal review process?

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Paul how do you feel about a trim that can't be detected by a grading company in their normal review process?

I appreciate the effort to find a slippery slope in my reasoning, but this isn't one of them.

A normal grading review that misses a trim is not the same thing. In any hypothetical where the fibers of the card are damaged by the treatment, I am on the side of the fence against the treatment. What I don't understand is why people build a fence between water and a chemical with the same properties of water when applied to a T206 card.

Stated another way, I think it is more intellectually honest to be against water and all chemicals, than to segregate water from the list of unmentionables.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

What I don't understand is why people build a fence between water and a chemical with the same properties of water when applied to a T206 card.

What chemical is being used that has the exact same properties of water? Did I miss something in this thread?

For me the line is easy the day a glass of tap water can make stains like these disappear, and the day items like this are sold with disclosure about the cleaning undergone be sure to let me know.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=132902

Otherwise you are doing something to alter the appearance of the card found and therefore increasing its value with secrecy which to me is not on the up and up. Also if our hobby was so excepting of this it would be disclosed all the time hmmm I wonder why it's never mentioned in auction write ups?

Just because one may spread icing on a turd doesn’t make it chocolate cake in my book regardless if I can taste the difference or not.

Cheers,

John

[chernieto]

Just because one may spread icing on a turd doesn’t make it chocolate cake in my book regardless if I can taste the difference or not.

Cheers,

John[/QUOTE]

Please do not try this at home! Or anywhere....

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by chernieto

Just because one may spread icing on a turd doesn’t make it chocolate cake in my book regardless if I can taste the difference or not.

Cheers,

John

Please do not try this at home! Or anywhere....[/QUOTE]

There goes my Net54 cookbook deal...

[T206Collector]

This is perfect. How does what you said here apply differently when water is used:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

[Y]ou are doing something to alter the appearance of the card found and therefore increasing its value with secrecy which to me is not on the up and up. Also if our hobby was so excepting of this it would be disclosed all the time hmmm I wonder why it's never mentioned in auction write ups?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

This is perfect. How does what you said here apply differently when water is used:

Paul read my post...and look at the link. Let me know when tap water makes major stains on a T206 Plank go away.

[DoctorK]

I have not read the entire thread but have a hypothetical question:

When given the choice between two similar condition cards and you know one has been treated, cleaned, stain removed (whatever you want to call it)---Which one do you choose?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by DoctorK

I have not read the entire thread but have a hypothetical question:

When given the choice between two similar condition cards and you know one has been treated, cleaned, stain removed (whatever you want to call it)---Which one do you choose?

I don't know the answer but could you quit posting so often? We're going to have to impose the 15 post-a-day rule for you .

Actually, I will answer the question . If I were told one was cleaned with water and a Q-tip, and one had nothing done to it at all but was the same grade, I would pick the one that looked best regardless of washing or not. Now if you told me it was cleaned with solvent I wouldn't be so sure...

[DoctorK]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't know the answer but could you quit posting so often? We're going to have to impose the 15 post-a-day rule for you .

Actually, I will answer the question . If I were told one was cleaned with water and a Q-tip, and one had nothing done to it at all but was the same grade, I would pick the one that looked best regardless of washing or not. Now if you told me it was cleaned with solvent I wouldn't be so sure...

I try to limit my posting to twice every 5 years or so . I do read the forum on a more regular basis.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't know the answer but could you quit posting so often? We're going to have to impose the 15 post-a-day rule for you .

Actually, I will answer the question . If I were told one was cleaned with water and a Q-tip, and one had nothing done to it at all but was the same grade, I would pick the one that looked best regardless of washing or not. Now if you told me it was cleaned with solvent I wouldn't be so sure...

-

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by DoctorK

I have not read the entire thread but have a hypothetical question:

When given the choice between two similar condition cards and you know one has been treated, cleaned, stain removed (whatever you want to call it)---Which one do you choose?

The one treated with tap water from Philadelphia, as I can suck on it in emergencies and get any appropriate minerals.

Whoops - I'm probably above my posting limit as well. Leon - I'm still unemployed and not prone to exercise, so what's a guy going to do?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by DoctorK

When given the choice between two similar condition cards and you know one has been treated, cleaned, stain removed (whatever you want to call it)---Which one do you choose?

Welcome to the boards, I think

If they're similar condition, I think we would all (even the ones that aren't opposed to stain removal) choose the one that hasn't been cleaned.

I think a better question would be something like, "If given the choice between to of the same cards:

one that has a NM appearance, but has been cleaned, or
one that is EXish that hasn't been cleaned

Which one would you choose?"

[DoctorK]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Welcome to the boards, I think

If they're similar condition, I think we would all (even the ones that aren't opposed to stain removal) choose the one that hasn't been cleaned.

I think a better question would be something like, "If given the choice between to of the same cards:

one that has a NM appearance, but has been cleaned, or
one that is EXish that hasn't been cleaned

Which one would you choose?"

To those that do not mind treatment, would it matter which card you received (treated or non treated)? Assuming all other things about the cards were equal.

[Sean1125]

Problem solved.

[wonkaticket]

Shawn, not trying to corner you but you seem to have some "stones" if you will. Since everyone else seems to ignore this question perhaps you can answer?

If what was done by Dick and others that results in cards just like the Plank posted is no big deal in our hobby. Why asked now many times is it not mentioned with pride at the time of sale and hidden from TPGs?

I actually would enjoy hearing your POV on the above question since you seem to be in the camp that what Dick does is not a big deal.

Cheers,

John

[chernieto]

Originally Posted by Runscott

So, since they aren't, bleaching them with hydrogen peroxide is the same as soaking them in water?

I'm picturing two T206 collectors crawling through the desert, dying of thirst. They come upon a huge vat of hydrogen peroxide. The one who studied basket-weaving exclaims: "This is more water than we can possibly drink, and with all the extra oxygen, we should be able to jog out of this desert!!!"


To T206collector: This is all harmless fun. Please do not take offense, as I get what you are saying. I just don't think you chose a great example to support your argument.

I'm imagining 2 T206 collectors at a estate sale and they find an old album with amazing T206 collection of HOF cards glued in the album. One wants to buy it and remove the cards from the album pages- and the other says "you can't do that! It will destroy the hobby! It's evil & illicit to do that and I will never sleep again!!"
Paul C

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Runscott

So, since they aren't, bleaching them with hydrogen peroxide is the same as soaking them in water?

To T206collector: This is all harmless fun. Please do not take offense, as I get what you are saying. I just don't think you chose a great example to support your argument.

I thought you understood that I was using a hypothetical, not that I was countenancing the use of hydrogen peroxide on a tobacco card. I have no idea what the interaction would be -- and severe damage or bleaching may certainly result.

I take no offense, and I don't mind the fun, but I do think it is critical to get at the heart of what people expect from their 100+ year old cardboard.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I thought you understood that I was using a hypothetical, not that I was countenancing the use of hydrogen peroxide on a tobacco card. I have no idea what the interaction would be -- and severe damage or bleaching may certainly result.

I take no offense, and I don't mind the fun, but I do think it is critical to get at the heart of what people expect from their 100+ year old cardboard.

I did understand, but you definitely should have an idea as to what the interaction would be; if not, then it's hard to take you seriously when you are talking about chemicals and their effects.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I did understand, but you definitely should have an idea as to what the interaction would be; if not, then it's hard to take you seriously when you are talking about chemicals and their effects.

Actually, I am pretty sure you got sidetracked by the actual effects of H202 on a piece of cardboard, which is wholly irrelevant to what anyone was saying in this thread.

[Taxman]

H2O2 = hydrogen peroxide
H2O = water

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Actually, I am pretty sure you got sidetracked by the actual effects of H202 on a piece of cardboard, which is wholly irrelevant to what anyone was saying in this thread.

You need to give it up. I wasn't the one who incorrectly compared water to hydrogen peroxide. Go take 30 hours of chemistry, then come back and we can continue this discussion.

Okay, where were we?

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You need to give it up. I wasn't the one who incorrectly compared water to hydrogen peroxide. Go take 30 hours of chemistry, then come back and we can continue this discussion.

Okay, where were we?

I need to give what up, exactly? Show me where I said that water and hydrogen peroxide would have the same effect on a T206 card?