Bill Russell's Mt. Rushmore response

[bnorth]

I may be in the minority here, I think he is being a bitter old man because he was left off Lebrons list. He says it is a team sport then adds I won this and I won that and I I I. I think he is one of the greatest ever just don't say it is a team sport then add all the I I I"s in there.

On a basketball note I am rooting for my favorite player Alonzo Mourning to make the HOF this year. If not for his kidney problems he would have been in the top 20 of all-time greats. He is #1 in my book.

[Bocabirdman]

Lebron is a great ball player but has no chance at Top 4 in the history of the game. Hell, Elvin Hayes would have eaten Lebron's lunch and had him thanking E for doing so. Just ask Lew Alcindor. Hayes out played him in the '68 Houston/UCLA game. Also, any Top 4 that doesn't include Wilt Chamberlain is just plain silly.

higher.jpg

This sky hook block-to-be was at the end of Wilt's career. The only reason he was a terrible free throw shooter is that they changed the rules to keep him from dunking them.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I may be in the minority here, I think he is being a bitter old man because he was left off Lebrons list. He says it is a team sport then adds I won this and I won that and I I I. I think he is one of the greatest ever just don't say it is a team sport then add all the I I I"s in there.

On a basketball note I am rooting for my favorite player Alonzo Mourning to make the HOF this year. If not for his kidney problems he would have been in the top 20 of all-time greats. He is #1 in my book.

Even in a team sport there are players that make the team and everyone around them better. When I was watching a lot of basketball it was Bird, Johnson and Jordan.

Bird and Jordan both led their teams to Playoff wins when they weren't at their best, playing a totally different game than usual.
Johnson came of the bench as a rookie in the finals
"The Lakers compiled a 60–22 record in the regular season and reached the 1980 NBA Finals,[37] in which they faced the Philadelphia 76ers, who were led by forward Julius Erving. The Lakers took a 3–2 lead in the series, but Abdul-Jabbar, who averaged 33 points a game in the series,[38] sprained his ankle in Game 5 and could not play in Game 6.[35] Paul Westhead decided to start Johnson at center in Game 6; Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals in a 123–107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game.[35] Johnson became the only rookie to win the NBA Finals MVP award,[35] and his clutch performance is still regarded as one of the finest in NBA history.[

Russell is in the same sort of group. I didn't see him play, but dad did. Plus we have film from then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40iKnaUjz_w

At I think 2:58 is the end of the play where he went full court to block a fast break layup.

Russell and Chamberlain I think were both modern players playing well ahead of their time. It's hard to say how they'd do today except that they'd still be among the best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2iR470UVh4

So there's a few pretty solid contenders for top 5.
Many of the other players mentioned would fill out a top 10 pretty easily, and I'd include Dr J too.

I just don't see Lebron being that good yet. He's a great player, but hasn't really shown much in the way of going beyond himself and finding a way to win even when his typical style of play isn't working. The players like Bird, Johnson, Jordan, etc also played well against each other. And the video above shows how Russell and Chamberlain played against each other. Lebron has been great against ???? He's pretty much one of the only current players even mentioned as a possible top 10.
I do see top 50, maybe top 25.


Maybe a few years from now I'll see it differently, but not yet.

Steve B

[Exhibitman]

James isn't even clearly the best forward let alone a top 4 of all time all positions; hey LJ, ever heard of Elgin Baylor or Karl Malone? As for Mt. Rushmore, his omitting at least one of Russell, Chamberlain or Abdul-Jabbar is just plain ignorant.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sorry, Elvin Hayes is not anywhere near as good as LeBron and I grew up watching Big E in D C.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sorry, Elvin Hayes is not anywhere near as good as LeBron and I grew up watching Big E in D C.

I guess we will just disagree. I was in Maryland also. You might wanna check career stats though.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I guess we will just disagree. I was in Maryland also. You might wanna check career stats though.

Was Elvin Hayes better than Mike Schmidt?

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Was Elvin Hayes better than Mike Schmidt?

On defense, it's a wash. On offense I give the edge to Schmidt, but of course, he uses a bat to get it done.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I guess we will just disagree. I was in Maryland also. You might wanna check career stats though.

I'm not taking anything away from Elvin although he had a marked tendency to disappear in the fourth quarter. I loved him and Unseld and the rest of those teams. But he does not belong in the conversation among the very few best players ever, James does even mid-career. Look at the prices of Elvin's rookie card, the hobby knows how to rate him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

ps Alcindor had a severely injured eye in that game. Lew destroyed him in the rematch.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm not taking anything away from Elvin although he had a marked tendency to disappear in the fourth quarter. I loved him and Unseld and the rest of those teams. But he does not belong in the conversation among the very few best players ever, James does even mid-career. Look at the prices of Elvin's rookie card, the hobby knows how to rate him.

Truly, my statement was less pro-Hayes and more anti-James. James rebounds horribly for a man of his size and ability. He can score and he can jump. That means he can create separation and get to the ball . He should be doing a Double double-double () 20 pts. and 20 rebounds every night. I live down here in Florida. I see him do the fourth quarter fade too often.

If you watch, and I mean REALLY watch him, game-after game, he is brilliant in spurts but seldom brilliant for an entire game. Granted, the Heat do not NEED him to be brilliant for 40 minutes.