PSA grade head scratcher

[scotgreb]

Luke -

Not sure how you prepared the submission but if you specified "no qualifiers" and PSA deemed there to be a mark -- your PSA 2 might have really been a PSA 4(MK). Just a thought.

Scott

[LKeeler]

Originally Posted by scotgreb

Luke -

Not sure how you prepared the submission but if you specified "no qualifiers" and PSA deemed there to be a mark -- your PSA 2 might have really been a PSA 4(MK). Just a thought.

Scott

Thanks Scott. You have a point. Never thought of that.

[Piratedogcardshows]

Originally Posted by scotgreb

Luke -

Not sure how you prepared the submission but if you specified "no qualifiers" and PSA deemed there to be a mark -- your PSA 2 might have really been a PSA 4(MK). Just a thought.

Scott

I agree with this statement.There is what appears to be stray ink on the back in the left margin.

[LKeeler]

Originally Posted by Jason

I agree with this statement.There is what appears to be stray ink on the back in the left margin.

Thanks Jason. Yeah, I thought that it was perhaps some bleeding through from the front, but perhaps it is stray ink that is considered a qualification. Hmmm

[Piratedogcardshows]

Originally Posted by LKeeler

Thanks Jason. Yeah, I thought that it was perhaps some bleeding through from the front, but perhaps it is stray ink that is considered a qualification. Hmmm

It's still a beauty of a card and deserving of a higher grade.These graders can be fickle at times.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I think it's a speck of paperloss on the back in the word "Manufactured." The "M" is not complete. Blow up the scan and then look at it. You'll see what I am talking about.

[LKeeler]

Originally Posted by scotgreb

Luke -

Not sure how you prepared the submission but if you specified "no qualifiers" and PSA deemed there to be a mark -- your PSA 2 might have really been a PSA 4(MK). Just a thought.

Scott

Ding, ding, ding. This appears to be the winning answer! PSA was very quick in responding to my inquiry so kudos to good customer service.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by LKeeler

Ding, ding, ding. This appears to be the winning answer! PSA was very quick in responding to my inquiry so kudos to good customer service.

I thought that marks on cards were qualifiers that could not be removed from the flip for PSA.

[scotgreb]

What did I win?

Gary - you can always request no qualifiers -- after that, I'm not sure the specifics of PSA's procedures. I believe that it is generally a 2-point downgrade for mid and higher grade cards -- although I'm not sure it applies to 9s and 10s. Lower grade (PSA 3 and below) I believe it is a 1-point downgrade.

Scott

[glchen]

Originally Posted by scotgreb

What did I win?

Gary - you can always request no qualifiers -- after that, I'm not sure the specifics of PSA's procedures. I believe that it is generally a 2-point downgrade for mid and higher grade cards -- although I'm not sure it applies to 9s and 10s. Lower grade (PSA 3 and below) I believe it is a 1-point downgrade.

Scott

Originally Posted by MattyC

You can request no qualifiers when you submit.

If the card then has what they deem a qualifier, there will be a point deduction, in lieu of MK, ST, OC, etc.

No, some qualifiers you can never get rid of, even if you request no qualifiers in your PSA submission. I believe the latest email that Luke shared from PSA confirms this point. You cannot remove MK or MC qualifiers even if you request no qualifers from PSA.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by glchen

No, some qualifiers you can never get rid of, even if you request no qualifiers in your PSA submission. I believe the latest email that Luke shared from PSA confirms this point. You cannot remove MK or MC qualifiers even if you request no qualifers from PSA.

MC isn't a qualifier that can't be removed according to an email I got asking about the highest grade a card can get with a MC qualifier:

The highest grade a card could get with a miscut is a 9 MC. The “MC” would be labeled appropriately if you choose so.

[scotgreb]

Originally Posted by glchen

No, some qualifiers you can never get rid of, even if you request no qualifiers in your PSA submission. I believe the latest email that Luke shared from PSA confirms this point. You cannot remove MK or MC qualifiers even if you request no qualifers from PSA.

I'm not one to question PSA's policies but I've had several experiences to the contrary. For example, I have cracked cards with (MK) qualifiers, resubmitted (requesting no qualifiers) and each time they have been returned a grade lower without the qualifier. I have also submitted cards with very obvious writing (again requesting no qualifiers) that were graded without the (MK) notation and a numeric grade (not just as Authentic). Lastly, I have submitted cards with obvious marks that I requested to simply be graded as "Authentic" and PSA did not qualify the "Authentic" grade. Maybe not perfectly contradictory experiences but IMO the policy in question is not strictly followed.

Edited to add that I believe I misspoke on the second example above. I went back and reviewed those instances and in each case the grade was "Authentic" -- supporting what others have said that PSA will not qualify an Authentic grade. Sorry for the confusion.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by glchen

I thought that marks on cards were qualifiers that could not be removed from the flip for PSA.

That was my understanding as well. I think there is some confustion between PSA and Luke.

Besides, what appears to be a mark (at least what I'm looking at) is just a WST and I've never seen one of those get a MK qualifier anyway.

[MattyC]

You can request no qualifiers when you submit.

If the card then has what they deem a qualifier, there will be a point deduction, in lieu of MK, ST, OC, etc.

[j_cook]

I just think PSA is very strict in general when it comes to their grades compared with other companies. I guess it is why people tend to pay top dollar for PSA graded cards, but it can be frustrating sometimes when sending raw cards in to be graded yourself.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by j_cook

i just think psa is very strict in general when it comes to their grades compared with other companies. I guess it is why people tend to pay top dollar for psa graded cards, but it can be frustrating sometimes when sending raw cards in to be graded yourself.

really?

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by j_cook

I just think PSA is very strict in general when it comes to their grades compared with other companies. I guess it is why people tend to pay top dollar for PSA graded cards, but it can be frustrating sometimes when sending raw cards in to be graded yourself.

Hmmmmm

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by j_cook

I just think PSA is very strict in general when it comes to their grades compared with other companies. I guess it is why people tend to pay top dollar for PSA graded cards, but it can be frustrating sometimes when sending raw cards in to be graded yourself.

You're kidding, right?!

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by j_cook

I just think PSA is very strict in general when it comes to their grades compared with other companies. I guess it is why people tend to pay top dollar for PSA graded cards, but it can be frustrating sometimes when sending raw cards in to be graded yourself.

You may want to check out this thread:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=NAMES

[1880nonsports]

Originally Posted by j_cook

I just think PSA is very strict in general when it comes to their grades compared with other companies. I guess it is why people tend to pay top dollar for PSA graded cards, but it can be frustrating sometimes when sending raw cards in to be graded yourself.

certainly not my feeling on many levels - but we are each entitled to an opinion here. I am aware that a segment of the collecting community will pay more for a PSA graded card in many categories - I don't think it's because PSA is "very strict". If collecting graded cards - allign yourself with the one whose grading standards - perhaps more appropriately parameters - most closely mirror your own. Frustration is easy to understand where you talk about sending raw cards to be graded yourself. If it's because you don't feel accomplished at grading your cards that's one thing - it comes with experience and is never a science and always open to interpretation. Grading is just an application of terms to describe the degrees to which a card deviates from that of a perfect example. All of the grading companies have a different system and do differing amounts of due diligence. The problem with cards and paper in general is that often there are flaws not easily discernible with a casual glance or even a loupe. The problem can be compounded because the major companies don't specifically address to the consumer what caused the grade they are given. One can factor in obvious faults and cross-reference with the company "standards" things like creases, tilt, corner wear, stains, and centering but the onus still falls on the consumer. For me - I prefer to purchase my cards in person whether graded or raw. It's not always possible so in the cyberverse I am more comfortable buying a card already graded than raw - something one can expect to have to pay a bit more for - as they risk has already been executed by the seller. I am suspending for the moment issues like WHO is making the submissions and the level of redress they have with the grading company as well as the percentage of "mistakes". I'm just a little guy and I have to believe the big guys get better attention. I continue to collect graded and raw cards depending on the set and my grader of choice up to this point has been SGC...........

no guarantees whether written or implied
henr.y moses

[LKeeler]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That was my understanding as well. I think there is some confustion between PSA and Luke.

Besides, what appears to be a mark (at least what I'm looking at) is just a WST and I've never seen one of those get a MK qualifier anyway.

David, you may be right. I probably am confused as this is new to me. Here is the email from Michael Viola of PSA in response to my email asking if the marking on the back was what brought my grade to a 2, in addition to how I marked the qualifiers box.

"Everything seems to be pretty accurate with what you stated in your previous e-mail, however on our PSA card submission forms, you have the option to mark “No Qualifiers” but you would not have to notate that you would like “Qualifiers”. With that said, even if you were to have notated “No Qualifiers” on your submission form, we would have graded your cards with a (MK) qualifier for Marks because that is one of the qualifiers that we notate on the label regardless, unlike (OC) for off-center. I hope this makes sense and is of some help to you"

So after re-reading that I am still confused and could use some help. So a mark is going to result in an MK regardless of what I checked pertaining to qualifiers?

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by LKeeler

David, you may be right. I probably am confused as this is new to me. Here is the email from Michael Viola of PSA in response to my email asking if the marking on the back was what brought my grade to a 2, in addition to how I marked the qualifiers box.

"Everything seems to be pretty accurate with what you stated in your previous e-mail, however on our PSA card submission forms, you have the option to mark “No Qualifiers” but you would not have to notate that you would like “Qualifiers”. With that said, even if you were to have notated “No Qualifiers” on your submission form, we would have graded your cards with a (MK) qualifier for Marks because that is one of the qualifiers that we notate on the label regardless, unlike (OC) for off-center. I hope this makes sense and is of some help to you"

So after re-reading that I am still confused and could use some help. So a mark is going to result in an MK regardless of what I checked pertaining to qualifiers?

So if you do not mark anything on your submission form, PSA will grade any card with a qualifier if need be. If you mark "No Qualifiers" on the submission form, PSA will grade the card without using qualifiers and in this case, the mark on the back brings the grade down to a "2"...and nothing higher because of the mark. If you peruse eBay and look at some of the cards with qualifiers, you will notice cards that are PSA 8(OC) and if they didn't include the "OC", the card would probably be around a "6".

The Wagner would have probably received a PSA 4(MK) if you chose to accept a qualifier.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by LKeeler

David, you may be right. I probably am confused as this is new to me. Here is the email from Michael Viola of PSA in response to my email asking if the marking on the back was what brought my grade to a 2, in addition to how I marked the qualifiers box.

"Everything seems to be pretty accurate with what you stated in your previous e-mail, however on our PSA card submission forms, you have the option to mark “No Qualifiers” but you would not have to notate that you would like “Qualifiers”. With that said, even if you were to have notated “No Qualifiers” on your submission form, we would have graded your cards with a (MK) qualifier for Marks because that is one of the qualifiers that we notate on the label regardless, unlike (OC) for off-center. I hope this makes sense and is of some help to you"

So after re-reading that I am still confused and could use some help. So a mark is going to result in an MK regardless of what I checked pertaining to qualifiers?

Correct, so PSA is saying that the card was not downgraded by what seemed to be a mark. That is, PSA determined that was not a mark on the card. Of course, they could have downgraded a card if they believed it was a stain, but I don't think it would be downgraded to a 2. My guess is that PSA believed that there was some paper loss on the card. light surface wrinkling that's hard to see in a scan, or this was a misgrade.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by glchen

Correct, so PSA is saying that the card was not downgraded by what seemed to be a mark. That is, PSA determined that was not a mark on the card. Of course, they could have downgraded a card if they believed it was a stain, but I don't think it would be downgraded to a 2. My guess is that PSA believed that there was some paper loss on the card. light surface wrinkling that's hard to see in a scan, or this was a misgrade.

That's interesting...didn't know they include the (MK) qualifier no matter what.

IMO it seems to be a misgrade...a small wrinkle wouldn't kill the grade this bad.