OT - Best 3B ever?

[colco]

To go along with what Drcy said about the era difference, ops+ attempts to account for this and Schmidt leads 147 to 141 over Jones (for those who don't know it measures your offense compared to a league average baseline of 100.)
WAR also gives an advantage to Schmidt who tops 100 on his career with Jones being at about 85 wins above replacement. Similar on offense and much better defensively, I'll take Schmidt any day of the week.

Jack

[Peter_Spaeth]

Schmidt, with Mathews and Brett also in the discussion.

[39special]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Schmidt, with Mathews and Brett also in the discussion.

Also Brooks Robinson

[Jim65]

Schmidt was the best 3B I ever saw.

[Brian Van Horn]

The best third basemen of all time is a short list:

Jimmy Collins
Pie Traynor
Brooks Robinson
Mike Schmidt

If strictly offensively, the Braves have two nominees to add:

Eddie Mathews
Chipper Jones
George Brett (one gold glove in 1985)

[dabigyankeeman]

Wade Boggs because he was the only third baseman to ride a horse around Yankee Stadium celebrating a world series victory!!

[timn1]

Intuitively I would probably agree that Schmidt outpaces Jones, Boggs, and all other 3bs, but RBI is only one measure of offensive production, not the only one.

Bill James among others have shown that RBI is EXTREMELY context-dependent (on teammates' ability, batting order, runs/game, etc.). My impression is that Jones batted third more than fourth (as Schmidt did), and certainly Boggs batted mostly leadoff. Inevitably 3 batters are gonna get fewer RBI than cleanup hitters....

When all is said and done, wouldn't OPS (adjusted for the era) be a better measure of batting accomplishments overall? Schmidt probably still wins, though.

Tim

[the 'stache]

I compared home runs, RBI, OBP, SLG.

OPS is of course a combination of OBP and SLG. Schmidt was tops in SLG and seventh in OBP in all of baseball during his career. Jones was 14th in OBP and 21st in SLG while he played. It doesn't take a lot of processing to extrapolate that Schmidt blew Chipper Jones out of the water in OPS when era is considered.

So, Schmidt was the better power hitter. Better run producer. Better in OBP/SLG/OPS, and better defensively. He was also selected as the best offensive third baseman six times in the second half of his career, while Jones was continually being passed over.

There is no argument that could be made in favor of Chipper Jones over Mike Schmidt. None.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by dabigyankeeman

Wade Boggs because he was the only third baseman to ride a horse around Yankee Stadium celebrating a world series victory!!

Great point.


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[EvilKing00]

jones played 95 games more than Schmidt - looking at their total bases jones has 350 more - and even if you divide the number of total bases by their AB jones is still better. Basicly giving you the total bases per AB of each player though its real CLOSE - .527 - .529

given the HR difference as well as the average difference - id rather have jones.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Baseball reference rates Schmidt first and Jones fifth. And Pie Traynor 58th.

[pgellis]

Jones played 2 full seasons in LF. Schmidt played 220 more games at 3B than Chipper. To me, it's Schmidt.

[EvilKing00]

also chipper is 3rd all time in OPS behind arod and Miguel Cabrera with 930, Schmidt is behind chipper with 908

Chipper is also 3rd all time in doubles with 549 behind brett and boggs, Schmidt is 15 with 408

Chipper is also 2ed all time in runs 1619 behind yep u guessed it arod Schmidt is 15 with 1506

Chipper is also 2all time in RBI with 1623, yea arod is 1st again, and Schmidt is tied for 3rd with brett with 1595

[25801wv]

Chipper Jones has 1 MVP, 1 Batting Title, and never led the league in Home Runs or RBI.
Mike Schmidt has 3 MVP's, 8 Home Run Titles, 4 RBI Titles, 10 Gold Gloves, and a World Series MVP. How is that even close?

[brewing]

Originally Posted by colco

I'll take Schmidt any day of the week.

And twice on Sunday, it's not even close.