OT - Best 3B ever?

dabigyankeeman · #1 02-18-2014, 10:08 AM

Wade Boggs because he was the only third baseman to ride a horse around Yankee Stadium celebrating a world series victory!!

timn1 · #2 02-18-2014, 08:59 PM

Intuitively I would probably agree that Schmidt outpaces Jones, Boggs, and all other 3bs, but RBI is only one measure of offensive production, not the only one.

Bill James among others have shown that RBI is EXTREMELY context-dependent (on teammates' ability, batting order, runs/game, etc.). My impression is that Jones batted third more than fourth (as Schmidt did), and certainly Boggs batted mostly leadoff. Inevitably 3 batters are gonna get fewer RBI than cleanup hitters....

When all is said and done, wouldn't OPS (adjusted for the era) be a better measure of batting accomplishments overall? Schmidt probably still wins, though.

Tim

the 'stache · #3 02-18-2014, 09:54 PM

I compared home runs, RBI, OBP, SLG.

OPS is of course a combination of OBP and SLG. Schmidt was tops in SLG and seventh in OBP in all of baseball during his career. Jones was 14th in OBP and 21st in SLG while he played. It doesn't take a lot of processing to extrapolate that Schmidt blew Chipper Jones out of the water in OPS when era is considered.

So, Schmidt was the better power hitter. Better run producer. Better in OBP/SLG/OPS, and better defensively. He was also selected as the best offensive third baseman six times in the second half of his career, while Jones was continually being passed over.

There is no argument that could be made in favor of Chipper Jones over Mike Schmidt. None.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 02-18-2014, 10:24 PM

If Miggy doesn't pull a Pujols, in a few years this may be worth revisiting.

the 'stache · #5 02-18-2014, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If Miggy doesn't pull a Pujols, in a few years this may be worth revisiting.

I respectfully disagree, Peter, only because Cabrera won't have the amount of time played at third base to really merit inclusion in this type of discussion.

He's played 1,630 games in his career, of which 686 have been played at third. With Prince Fielder's trade to Texas, Cabrera will be moving back to first, and Nick Castellanos will be given every opportunity to become Detroit's full-time third baseman.

Cabrera is a spectacular offensive force, you'll get no argument from me there. But he's never been more than an acceptable defender. Even if he'd played almost exclusively at third throughout his career, I don't know if his offense alone would be enough to usurp Schmidt's spot atop the list. But it would make for an interesting analysis, for sure.

tedzan · #6 02-19-2014, 09:38 AM

I must admit I'm biased, since I'm a Phillies and Yankees fan.....Schmidt is the man.

All the other 3rd baseman mentioned here are greats; but, Mike Schmidt wins this contest in the all-around ballplayer category.

TED Z

Peter_Spaeth · #7 02-19-2014, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I respectfully disagree, Peter, only because Cabrera won't have the amount of time played at third base to really merit inclusion in this type of discussion.

He's played 1,630 games in his career, of which 686 have been played at third. With Prince Fielder's trade to Texas, Cabrera will be moving back to first, and Nick Castellanos will be given every opportunity to become Detroit's full-time third baseman.

Cabrera is a spectacular offensive force, you'll get no argument from me there. But he's never been more than an acceptable defender. Even if he'd played almost exclusively at third throughout his career, I don't know if his offense alone would be enough to usurp Schmidt's spot atop the list. But it would make for an interesting analysis, for sure.

I was under the impression he had played more at third. Given that he has not, and will be moving to first, he probably should not be considered. But I would forgive his average defense if he continues to put up those numbers.

ls7plus · #8 02-19-2014, 06:37 PM

Schmidt, with no one else even reasonably close, IMHO.

Happy collecting,

Larry

I Only Smoke 4 the Cards · #9 02-19-2014, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabigyankeeman

Wade Boggs because he was the only third baseman to ride a horse around Yankee Stadium celebrating a world series victory!!

Great point.

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