Question on the E98 Background Color Variations

[pcoz]

Guys, I agree with everyone's thoughts so far, and take it from Tim, the E98 king! I need 13 more for my Master set, and I thought blue to be marginally scarcer than the others before the BSF, and for sure now after. But without a doubt in my opinion, blue has always been the most condition sensitive. The player/color combos are the key here, with so many only showing up through the years once or twice. I've seen a bunch of blue Matty's, but only 2 green & 2 orange's, 1 green Clarke, 1 blue Walsh, 2 blue Tenney's, 1 orange Bender, and I have the only blue Tinker I've ever seen for sale. Toughest HOF'ers imo are Walsh, Lajoie & Jennings, and commons are Coombs, Bridwell & Vaughn.

[Tim Kindler]

Guys,
Seeing beautiful E98s on the board never gets old. Leon's Old Puts are awesome and I still drool over that Clarke......maybe someday Leon

Pete U., I love seeing those Jennings again. That card is so underestimated in this set in my opinion. It's by far, the lowest populated Hall of Famer in the set, and there are really very few higher graded examples in existence, and you have some real beauties there my friend!

Pete C., great seeing some of your beauties again. Your Tinker in Blue is absolutely stunning. I've only ever seen 2 in my life- yours and mine and yours is stunning and mine is in dog-chew-toy candition. Everyone be aware that when Pete finishes his E98 MAster Set , it will be absoultely fantastic with most of his cards far exceding the conditions of mine! I can't wait. Pete and I have traded, bought, & sold back and forth helping each other on our Master Set journeys over the years working within our respective budgets, needs, and wants. As I mentioned in my Master Set set thread, I really appreciate the friends I've met through the board like Pete while collecting E98s. Can't wait to see your finished project my friend!

[pcoz]

Thanks Tim! You'll always be the captain of the E98 team for sure, and I really appreciate all your input & friendship in catching up with you over the years on these. Jason have fun with the set, it is certainly Tim and my favorite set, but a truly beautiful & fun one to collect. Good luck with the Clarke's!

[caramelcard]

We've had many discussions about this over the years. Some collectors have found red to be the hardest, but everyone has a different experience. I've also collected the master set and green was a bit tougher for me. Even with a few of us accumulating a hundred and fifty to two hundred cards over the years, it's hard to do a study with a large enough sample size. Many of the same cards have been recycled into different collections.

I believe the the "Old Puts" (and the Black Swamp find) show that it's likely certain colors could be more difficult to find.

If only red (and a small smattering of blue) were included (given out) with that product, it's very likely that other colors were exclusive to one product. Or that, for example, red E98s were included with Old Put Cigars and 4 or 5 other products.

If it was a retailer who stamped the Old Put E98s, he probably chose the red background cards from a salesman. The Black Swamp find was mostly red, but it shows that whomever was selling those cards did have different colors with them.

If this is true that each color might be exclusive to a certain product, then the popularity of the product might determine how many survived. It seems likely that the same number of each were printed, but how many were actually purchased by retailers or shops and how many customers purchased them as a premium?

E98s might not be candy cards. There's really no proof, except for what appear to be orange stains on some of the cards. (By the way, I've seen more stains on green and orange cards) "Old Put" stamps seem to be something closer to proof that they're not candy cards, but again the cards were probably used to support different products. The Black Swamp find story mentioned that the family owned a meat market, not a candy store or cigar shop.


E98s are more common then E94s as we know. I would assume that E98 was a broader scheme that was fairly successful regionally and that E94 followed, but was on more of a local level.

E94s appear in my experience to show a much more unbalanced survival rate between the different colors.


Rob

[Tim Kindler]

Rob,
Great to hear your thoughts. Rob helped me alot with insight when I first started collecting E98s. He came just shy of a Master Set long before I ever came close. For those who are newer to the board, if anyone knows anyting from the earlier thoughts on E98s and information on E98s its Rob and Bob M. They are a huge wealth of knowledge to this board.

Yes, we don't know for sure if E98s are truly E or T cards. The Old Put cigar could simply be an overprint over an E card, but no one knows for sure. In my opinion, I have always concluded that they are an E card because the poses match others from E sets.

I never looked at the staining aspects on certain colors before, Rob, but now that you mentioned it about the greens and oranges, I'm going to have to do some research. Rob, Great to get your insights.
Tim

[pcoz]

Rob, great stuff. I do have more staining on my greens & oranges after looking at them. Far less on the reds & blues. My reds are in the nicest condition, with some of the lower grades I received from back paper loss, not staining. I think you're right and they were used in a wider distribution capacity. I've always considered them E cards because of the staining, and that you can make the case the mid-grade of the set is an SGC 40 or less, not including the BSF. Old Puts I would have in the T category for how they were distributed. E98's seem to have the tough player/color combos, with the E94's having certain colors showing up more often. Two great sets!

[Leon]

Anyone see many misprints and freaks in E98? Here are a few, the Bridwell with the split back, Walsh with a pretty cool sunburn and Evers with fading or something?...

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Leon

Anyone see many misprints and freaks in E98? Here are a few, the Bridwell with the split back, Walsh with a pretty cool sunburn and Evers with fading or something?...

There was a Mack Black Swamp Miscut showing three cards on the front (Ford's name on top and a slight card on the right) and a split back. I am glad it is miscut because to get a post factory problem free card that was centered would have cost me at least 10x as much (based off the lowest Mack BSF).

[peterose4hof]

Great thread guys! I had the pleasure of seeing Tim's "book" of E98s that he brought to the National a couple years ago. Truly an impressive collection.

I only collect Cincinnati Reds so McLean is the one that I am after from this set. I have the red version (below), but I still need the other 3. Any thoughts on if McLean is tougher to find in one color vs the others?

[caramelcard]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

There was a Mack Black Swamp Miscut showing three cards on the front (Ford's name on top and a slight card on the right) and a split back. I am glad it is miscut because to get a post factory problem free card that was centered would have cost me at least 10x as much (based off the lowest Mack BSF).

Was bidding on this card too. It's very difficult to find an E98 with a name at the top.

[brianp-beme]

Great insider info on this set Tim and Pete...I always dig what long time, focused collectors can bring forward to the collecting community. Here are the ones I own that Tim (and Pete on the Tinker) noted as being difficult. Notice that they are all blue in color. And marvel at how they are artfully arrayed so as to almost disguise missing portions on Tinker and Brown. These have never seen the light of my scanner, though the Tinker and Brown have been picked up within the last five years, so were at some point on the tanning bed, but perhaps not noticed because of their sour condition. I have had the Coombs forever, so he probably doesn't even know what a scanner is.

Brian

[Tim Kindler]

Brian,
Thanks for sharing your scans. Those are some toughies and ones I have rarely seen. My Brown, an SGC 10 isn't much better, just completely there. I agree with Pete. Not only do I think Blues are tougher to find, they are tougher to find in better condition.

Leon,
Here are a few odd/ball E98s. The Green McGraw has a white face with no skin coloring like the other color background McGraws. My Blue McGraw and my Blue Meyers have a split back of two cards with one card on front.

Staining- I definately see Rob's point on the staining of Green and Orange backgrounds. Many of my oranges and greens have staining, but so do many of my Blues. Maybe the Reds were given out as promotional pieces and not included in candy/caramel wrapped candies like the other colors????? This is a theory behind why how the family got all their Reds which were then placed up in that attic without being distributed and were left in incredible condition. It would also help explain why the majority of Old Put Backs (I've only seen 4 Blues stamped with an Old Put- Leon's Clarke, My Dooin, and 2 from a private collector) are on Red cards. The store owner might have gotten them as a promotion and decided to make his own advertising pieces??
Tim Kindler

[caramelcard]

Tim,

Great points. And thanks for checking on the blues for stains. Now, I remember that many of my blues had staining as well. Not to say that we won't find some red E98s with caramel/candy stains, but I don't think they're as common if there are any. I think you're onto something with the reds possibly not going into packaging. But, it's possible that other colors (sometimes) didn't go in either. Even before the B.S find (), I'm sure you remember Scott M's green set. Nearly flawless and all of them found together.

Anyone still have the green E98s with the "paid" stamp?

Rob