Another Probstein LOL

[hangman62]

Come on Acollector... being a little dramatic arent you ?

Going on about Hitler, stolen cars, criminals, honest government !

Im just saying that lots of collectors at one time of another have done some type of shill bidding

How did a post of mine once cause you to get screwed over by Probstein ?

Come on RunScott..Im just giving my opinion ..no need to start the personal insults.....but really..I dont care...like I said many times...I love posts like this that get hotly contested/ long winded/ nasty/etc.. I find it entertaining

[Acollector]

Originally Posted by hangman62

Come on Acollector... being a little dramatic arent you ?

It's a legitimate analogy because you are saying you don't care whom he screws over as long as you don't get screwed over and can benefit from him. I never said it was your post. I said it was posts like yours.

Originally Posted by markf31

I would propose that Rick institute a rule in every one of his listings, that every bidder would agree to when they place a bid, something along the lines of:

No bidder with more than 2 bid retractions in the past 6 months is eligible to bid on this auction. Any bidder who wins an auction and has more than 2 bid retractions in the past 6 months will forfeit the auction. (this is to eliminate last second snipe bids that Rick would be unable to monitor and cancel prior to the end of the auction)

The item could then be re-listed.

Now if Rick is able to determine that the bidder(s) in these situations are shilling for the seller, he should return the card to the consignor and ban the bidder and consignor and refuse to do business with the consignor. Period.

He will never do this because it won't make him money, at least not in the short run.

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Get married and you won't need an armed guard to make sure you don't overbid on auctions.

I'd have a better chance at surviving a gun shot than be nagged to death.

[Pythonfactory]

Thanks for posting that conversation Jeff. When this thread was first made, I was in the "I'd maybe bid on a Probstein item after doing some investigation and if it isn't an easy item to acquire elsewhere" camp. Now I'm clearly in the "No way in hell would I ever bid on a Probstein item" camp. There are so many people/auction houses selling pre-war cards so why would I support one that is obviously lacking in the ethics department? Hopefully this thread encourages others to take their money elsewhere because that is the most impactful thing we can do in this situation.

[dog*dirt]

It would be interesting to see an anonymous poll as to whether or not these shilling allegations have had an impact in regards to collectors choosing to bid or not to bid in his auctions.

[Cardboard Junkie]

But what if he has stuff I NEED? Doesn't STUFF trump everything?(jk)

[Acollector]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

But what if he has stuff I NEED? Doesn't STUFF trump everything?(jk)

Sadly, that's how many see it until they get screwed over, and then come back to say Jebus help me!

Originally Posted by dog*dirt

It would be interesting to see an anonymous poll as to whether or not these shilling allegations have had an impact in regards to collectors choosing to bid or not to bid in his auctions.

I don't need anonymity. I will never do business with him again. From my experience with him, all I see is a weasel with no spine that will lie and cheat as much as he can to take what he can. It's safe to say I won't be joining his fan club any time soon.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by Acollector

Sadly, that's how many see it until they get screwed over, and then come back to say Jebus help me!




I don't need anonymity. I will never do business with him again. From my experience with him, all I see is a weasel with no spine that will lie and cheat as much as he can to take what he can. It's safe to say I won't be joining his fan club any time soon.

"Jebus"? Is that the shuttle to Sunday Service?

[Exhibitman]

Yes, David, it does. Except when it doesn't. I will not even consider a Probstein auction now. Unless he has something I really want. Then I will hold my nose and bid. If I refused to do business with every convicted felon, indicted alleged felon, or overall skeevy creep out there I'd never get any new cards. And that won't do. How do I die with the most toys if I don't play the game?

Interesting suggestion about seller-implemented rules. However, I am not sure eBay will allow you to enforce rules that go beyond its own rules.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by hangman62

Come on RunScott..Im just giving my opinion ..no need to start the personal insults.....but really..I dont care...like I said many times...I love posts like this that get hotly contested/ long winded/ nasty/etc.. I find it entertaining

Fortunately you are not representative of this board, on any level.

[calvindog]

Would any of the Probstein apologists, the manners police, the blah blah blahzy blah imbeciles care to comment on Rick's explanation of the auction of his Mathewson ball?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Would any of the Probstein apologists, the manners police, the blah blah blahzy blah imbeciles care to comment on Rick's explanation of the auction of his Mathewson ball?

I saw that he gave you his phone number pretty early in the conversation, did you call him? To me that's the logical thing to do since there was some disconnect between you two.

If you're still concerned with this maybe you should give him a quick call?

Or am I being unreasonable..

[ullmandds]

maybe we can get Rick on the chat line?

[hangman62]

RunScott..I think you enjoy the cat fighting as much as many, never willing to just " let it go"...always have to come back with a comment that borders on disrespectful /mean/ stinging...I think you enjoy it..., I know I do ! LOL

an old broken down lonely man..all he has is his card collection..he used to be a runner..but now time has taken that away from him..there he sit...with computer keyboard courage... giving his angry thoughts..cruel comments, ... ever now and again he will put on his little silky shorts,showing awful weathered legs, ugly veins and all,and he will drive down to the supermarket..pretending he is still who he never was..looking at his ironman wristwatch every two minutes..just waiting for someone to say...Wow do you run ?.... goes home..sits in a darkened room..some meaningless sport game on the TV.... thinking about his baseball cards, how much money they are worth...so sad...Oh so very sad

[ullmandds]

Do all kevins live in the land of de nile???

Wow hangman...way to live up to your name!!!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by hangman62

RunScott..I think you enjoy the cat fighting as much as many, never willing to just " let it go"...always have to come back with a comment that borders on disrespectful /mean/ stinging...I think you enjoy it..., I know I do ! LOL

an old broken down lonely man..all he has is his card collection..he used to be a runner..but now time has taken that away from him..there he sit...with computer keyboard courage... giving his angry thoughts..cruel comments, ... ever now and again he will put on his little silky shorts,showing awful weathered legs, ugly veins and all,and he will drive down to the supermarket..pretending he is still who he never was..looking at his ironman wristwatch every two minutes..just waiting for someone to say...Wow do you run ?.... goes home..sits in a darkened room..some meaningless sport game on the TV.... thinking about his baseball cards, how much money they are worth...so sad...Oh so very sad

Perhaps, but none of that makes you any less of an idiot.

[calvindog]

I spoke to Rick last night. He informed me that he canceled the Mathewson auction -- presumably the winning bidder had no problem with this. He did not offer the winner of the auction the actual price of the ball if the purported shill bid was invalidated. He also banned the underbidder although he had no reason to believe anything untoward had occurred in the auction and did not check to see if there was any connection between the underbidder and consignor. Instead, the banning occurred because the underbidder had bids of 94% in his auction.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I spoke to Rick last night. He informed me that he canceled the Mathewson auction -- presumably the winning bidder had no problem with this. He did not offer the winner of the auction the actual price of the ball if the purported shill bid was invalidated. He also banned the underbidder although he had no reason to believe anything untoward had occurred in the auction and did not check to see if there was any connection between the underbidder and consignor. Instead, the banning occurred because the underbidder had bids of 94% in his auction.

Good job Jeff and Kudos to Rick. I do not believe it would have been appropriate to sell the ball for less than the original hammer price (even with the shill bid). Technically speaking, the shill bidder may have drove away/outbid a legitimate bidder, so we could never know the "true" hammer price.

[Acollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I spoke to Rick last night. He informed me that he canceled the Mathewson auction -- presumably the winning bidder had no problem with this. He did not offer the winner of the auction the actual price of the ball if the purported shill bid was invalidated. He also banned the underbidder although he had no reason to believe anything untoward had occurred in the auction and did not check to see if there was any connection between the underbidder and consignor. Instead, the banning occurred because the underbidder had bids of 94% in his auction.

What he said he did and what he actually did may be complete opposites. With the private ebay IDs now, it's virtuously impossible to know what was actually done. For ebay to not want any wrongdoing on their site, they sure do make it easy to be done.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Would any of the Probstein apologists, the manners police, the blah blah blahzy blah imbeciles care to comment on Rick's explanation of the auction of his Mathewson ball?

Sure.

While it certainly doesn't look or sound good and there probably is something wrong here....

Let's face it, you still have nothing which concretely proves something wrong was done. Period.

Add the definitive proof. Let me know when you do that. Until then this thread is just like the rest... Circumstantial and inconclusive.

Kevin

[markf31]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Sure.

While it certainly doesn't look or sound good and there probably is something wrong here....

Let's face it, you still have nothing which concretely proves something wrong was done. Period.

Add the definitive proof. Let me know when you do that. Until then this thread is just like the rest... Circumstantial and inconclusive.

Kevin

As its been mentioned before, multiple times, one of the benefits of these threads is to point out suspicious activities by consignors/sellers/bidders/etc. and to educate and notify other board members of potentially damaging actions by the parties involved. What the other board members choose to do with this information is their own choice in the end I suppose.

Personally, when it comes to my money and who I choose to do business with, I am the jury, judge and executioner. End of story. I don't operate under the idea that someone is innocent until proven guilty in my personal dealings with others. I operate under the idea that if something seems suspicious to me, then I must be provided with definitive proof that something nefarious did NOT happen before I will reinstate my trust in a company/business/individual.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by markf31

As its been mentioned before, multiple times, one of the benefits of these threads is to point out suspicious activities by consignors/sellers/bidders/etc. and to educate and notify other board members of potentially damaging actions by the parties involved. What the other board members choose to do with this information is their own choice in the end I suppose.

Personally, when it comes to my money and who I choose to do business with, I am the jury, judge and executioner. End of story. I don't operate under the idea that someone is innocent until proven guilty in my personal dealings with others. I operate under the idea that if something seems suspicious to me, then I must be provided with definitive proof that something nefarious did NOT happen before I will reinstate my trust in a company/business/individual.

Mark, eloquently put. I think the moral of this and other similar threads is that you can bring the idiot to water but you can't make him drink.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Sure.

While it certainly doesn't look or sound good and there probably is something wrong here....

Let's face it, you still have nothing which concretely proves something wrong was done. Period.

Add the definitive proof. Let me know when you do that. Until then this thread is just like the rest... Circumstantial and inconclusive.

Kevin

I understand that you only do class action law and not traditional civil or criminal cases but you do understand this isn't a court of law, correct? That we're not a sitting grand jury examining evidence and sending out subpoenas, right? That all we could have at this point is circumstantial evidence and that all we are trying to establish is that "there probably is something wrong here"? No 'definitive proof' can be established short of a confession or Rick allowing me to see his bidding and consignment records, neither of which will happen. I suspected Rick owned the Mathewson ball which was obviously shilled and Rick claimed he did own it -- before it was sold privately to some unknown buyer who later rejected the ball and supposedly put it back in a Probstein auction. And yet the ball was shilled in this Probstein auction at the price Rick paid for it in REA and not the higher price the unknown buyer got it for from Rick. That's circumstantial evidence enough for me to believe that the auction stinks. Maybe you pretend lawyer types need more definitive proof; I don't.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I understand that you only do class action law and not traditional civil or criminal cases but you do understand this isn't a court of law, correct? That we're not a sitting grand jury examining evidence and sending out subpoenas, right? That all we could have at this point is circumstantial evidence and that all we are trying to establish is that "there probably is something wrong here"? No 'definitive proof' can be established short of a confession or Rick allowing me to see his bidding and consignment records, neither of which will happen. I suspected Rick owned the Mathewson ball which was obviously shilled and Rick claimed he did own it -- before it was sold privately to some unknown buyer who later rejected the ball and supposedly put it back in a Probstein auction. And yet the ball was shilled in this Probstein auction at the price Rick paid for it in REA and not the higher price the unknown buyer got it for from Rick. That's circumstantial evidence enough for me to believe that the auction stinks. Maybe you pretend lawyer types need more definitive proof; I don't.

Ok good. You won your case. How many years in monopoly jail are you going to sentence him to?

Kevin

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Ok good. You won your case. How many years in monopoly jail are you going to sentence him to?

Kevin

If Rick wasn't concerned at all about what is occurring on this and similar threads, why do you think he called my office last night and emailed me out of the blue about this auction? Can you possibly be as dumb as you appear?