PSA-A Cautionary Tale!

[pclpads]

Well stated, Bobby!

[D. Bergin]

Kind of makes me wonder if that card was once an "8", got bumped up to an "8.5" when PSA instituted half grades, and was now attempting a "9".

I'm not a graded card guy, but the variances in grades are so minute I almost find it hard to believe that a card like that can be "cracked" out of a holder like that without some sort of damage, no matter how minute, being a near inevitability.

Back before anybody cared about microscopic defects, I must have nicked the corner of just about every other card I put into a rigid holder, a plastic carrying case, penny sleeve or a screwdown.

[Leon]

Until folks realize that the Registry is it's own competition and collecting niche, and really doesn't have as much to do with cards as it does flips, then folks will continue to have some angst towards it. Think of it as collecting bottle caps. Whoever gets the most, wins. IN a registry set, whoever gets the highest numbers on their pieces of paper, collectively, wins. It's not collecting cards. It's competing against friends to get the highest numbers on pieces of paper. If you look at it like that then it makes sense. I love the registry guys and the way they collect. They leave the type cards I collect alone. Bless their hearts.

[mark evans]

Another issue raised by this incident, and one that continues to baffle me, is the disparity in value between high-end grades. The difference in appearance between an 8.5 and a 9 is, in the best of worlds, miniscule, and, in reality, I suspect frequently non-existent or at least unreliable given the inherent subjectivity in the grading process. Accordingly, it strikes me that over time this disparity should be reduced as a general proposition. Whether or not there is any evidence of such a trend to date I couldn't say.

[barrysloate]

The fact that you can turn a $2200 card into a 15K card by having the label changed, when the difference between an 8.5 and a 9 is virtually imperceptible, is truly alarming.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The fact that you can turn a $2200 card into a 15K card by having the label changed, when the difference between an 8.5 and a 9 is virtually imperceptible, is truly alarming.

Alarming, amazing, ridiculous, appalling, horrifying, dismaying and a few words I cannot think of at this moment.
I am an autograph guy, and we certainly have our problems too, but the card grading and registry sets BS does make me chuckle.
This is like guys comparing their penis size and one shouts MINE IS BIGGER THAN YOURS. Wow, my registry set is better than yours, I fell for the PSA BS, I drank the PSA Kool-Aid, BUT I WON.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mark evans

Another issue raised by this incident, and one that continues to baffle me, is the disparity in value between high-end grades. The difference in appearance between an 8.5 and a 9 is, in the best of worlds, miniscule, and, in reality, I suspect frequently non-existent or at least unreliable given the inherent subjectivity in the grading process. Accordingly, it strikes me that over time this disparity should be reduced as a general proposition. Whether or not there is any evidence of such a trend to date I couldn't say.

As best I recall, early on in grading there was not the premiums on 9s that one sees now. The flip has its own value now in the market, for whatever reason, independent of the underlying card.

[MattyC]

I just said to a friend the other day, that the difference between higher end grades is the smallest in terms of CARD QUALITY, yet it is the largest in terms of price. That is an inverse relationship that really informs how I shop for cards.

If a 10 of a card costs 10k, and the most elite 9 costs 2k-- and is utterly indistinguishable from the 10 to the eye, why on earth would one pay such a huge premium for a card that is infinitesimally-- if at all-- better? The obvious answer is that the buyer wants that sticker for their Registry set, because it can't be all about the card itself.

This applies to any card where the next single grade up is a huge price leap. There will always be specimens that next grade below that look as good-- if not better.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I just said to a friend the other day, that the difference between higher end grades is the smallest in terms of CARD QUALITY, yet it is the largest in terms of price. That is an inverse relationship that really informs how I shop for cards.

If a 10 of a card costs 10k, and the most elite 9 costs 2k-- and is utterly indistinguishable from the 10 to the eye, why on earth would one pay such a huge premium for a card that is infinitesimally-- if at all-- better? The obvious answer is that the buyer wants that sticker for their Registry set, because it can't be all about the card itself.

This applies to any card where the next single grade up is a huge price leap. There will always be specimens that next grade below that look as good-- if not better.

The same phenomenon happens in many fields. People will pay a premium for a brand name product even though it's the same as or inferior to a generic product, will pay more for a brand name with snob appeal over a "lesser" brand even though the lesser brand is the same quaility, etc.

[RobertGT]

On thing you can always count on in this board is the constant drumbeat of criticism of collecting styles that are different from our own. You name it: registry collectors, 1980s wax boxes, shiny stuff, high-end rookie cards, those who collect only graded cards, those who collect only PSA, 1950s-60s cards (too common I guess) those who collect only 10s, etc.

With the current state of the hobby - rife with fraud and despicable characters masquerading as dealers - I think we should be happy people collect anything at all. And if they do, just let them be.

I may be a collector of worthless peanut shells. That is my right.

There is no right or wrong, so just let it be and be happy that people are providing business that at one time or another has benefited every single person on this board.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RobertGT

On thing you can always count on in this board is the constant drumbeat of criticism of collecting styles that are different from our own. You name it: registry collectors, 1980s wax boxes, shiny stuff, high-end rookie cards, those who collect only graded cards, those who collect only PSA, 1950s-60s cards (too common I guess) those who collect only 10s, etc.

With the current state of the hobby - rife with fraud and despicable characters masquerading as dealers - I think we should be happy people collect anything at all. And if they do, just let them be.

I may be a collector of worthless peanut shells. That is my right.

There is no right or wrong, so just let it be and be happy that people are providing business that at one time or another has benefited every single person on this board.

Criticism? I actually barely see any. All I see is people giving opinions. Why is it some people think that an opinion that is different than their own is criticism? I don't understand that.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Hey Matt! Did PSA return your 8.5 flip? and, how much do you want for it?

[RobertGT]

Originally Posted by Leon

Criticism? I actually barely see any. All I see is people giving opinions. Why is it some people think that an opinion that is different than their own is criticism? I don't understand that.

From your previous post, Leon: "IN a registry set, whoever gets the highest numbers on their pieces of paper, collectively, wins. It's not collecting cards. It's competing against friends to get the highest numbers on pieces of paper."

Yes you gave an opinion and absolutely you are entitled to it. But you are also making a sly jab at a registry collector - saying that what he's doing isn't really collecting, but apparently what you are doing is.

Maybe he just really loves sharp, beautiful cards? Same way someone loves an acclaimed painting or the finest automobile made? I am not a registry collector so I don't understand it exactly myself (mostly the cost of it) but I just tire reading about others' collecting styles put down in so many threads.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RobertGT

From your previous post, Leon: "IN a registry set, whoever gets the highest numbers on their pieces of paper, collectively, wins. It's not collecting cards. It's competing against friends to get the highest numbers on pieces of paper."

Yes you gave an opinion and absolutely you are entitled to it. But you are also making a sly jab at a registry collector - saying that what he's doing isn't really collecting, but apparently what you are doing is.

Maybe he just really loves sharp, beautiful cards? Same way someone loves an acclaimed painting or the finest automobile made? I am not a registry collector so I don't understand it exactly myself (mostly the cost of it) but I just tire reading about others' collecting styles put down in so many threads.

Well, I am not making a sly jab at the registry collectors. So you are wrong. I said it isn't collecting "cards" and I don't believe it is. If you do, fine. I don't. Why is my opinion criticism? Maybe you need to re-analyze the way you perceive others opinions? Maybe it is YOU that has the issue? I truly don't care how people collect but prefer to call it like I see it. I am sure the registry guys have just as much fun as the rest of us. I know some of them and they are cool cats. Maybe you are angry at something else? Have you thought about seeking counseling?

[RobertGT]

Originally Posted by Leon

Well, I am not making a sly jab at the registry collectors. So you are wrong. I said it isn't collecting "cards" and I don't believe it is. If you do, fine. I don't. Why is my opinion criticism? Maybe you need to re-analyze the way you perceive others opinions? Maybe it is YOU that has the issue? I truly don't care how people collect but prefer to call it like I see it. I am sure the registry guys have just as much fun as the rest of us. I know some of them and they are cool cats. Maybe you are angry at something else? Have you thought about seeking counseling?

Really silly, juvenile response. Not worth responding to at all so I won't, other than to say I expected more of the moderator of a great board. Instead of given sound logic, I'm insulted and told to seek counseling. I guess that's not criticism either by your definition.

And I'm having a great day and not angry at all. You were just talking about perceiving others opinions or something? Don't hang yourself with your own noose.

[smtjoy]

Interesting thread.

I know a coin dealer who submitted a 4K coin 65 times at over $100 a pop walk thru, on the 65th try the coin got the grade he felt it deserved and became a 45k coin......

[mark evans]

Mine was certainly not a criticism of any method of collection, but rather a commentary on the marketplace and a prediction that over time I would expect a 'correction' in the very large disparity in value between high-end graded cards.