Andy Pettitte will retire at the end of the season

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I think that if he gets in, it tells us a lot about how the voters feel about the entire PED thing;i.e-"NO" to the liars, "YES" to those who come clean QUICKLY. On the other hand, maybe it opens a door for guys like Palmeiro who were passive liars, unlike Clemens, Rodriguez,etc.

It will be interesting to see how this situation plays out, but we won't know for years.

What do you consider coming clean quickly, because I think people seem to forget what Pettitte actually did. He admitted to using it once the Mitchell report came out and said he never used it any other time than 2002 for an elbow injury.

Then two months later it was announced that in an affidavit he said he also did it in 2004, which is contrary to what he said earlier. That to me isn't coming clean, it's admitting to what was out there and hoping nothing else came out.

That makes me not believe that he only did it twice, maybe he did, but how does anyone know when he lied about it.

No way he makes it. A borderline candidate won't get in with a checkered past.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by z28jd

What do you consider coming clean quickly, because I think people seem to forget what Pettitte actually did. He admitted to using it once the Mitchell report came out and said he never used it any other time than 2002 for an elbow injury.

Then two months later it was announced that in an affidavit he said he also did it in 2004, which is contrary to what he said earlier. That to me isn't coming clean, it's admitting to what was out there and hoping nothing else came out.

That makes me not believe that he only did it twice, maybe he did, but how does anyone know when he lied about it.

No way he makes it. A borderline candidate won't get in with a checkered past.

Agree with this, I find it very hard to believe any of these guys "who only did it once." Plus with his flip-flopping on the Clemens saga, I think his candidacy is a done deal already. Add to the fact that he was on the margins w/o the PED usage(s) and the Clemens fiasco, not a HOFer. However by all accounts he seems like a nice guy.

[BigJJ]

To me, the saddest thing is that the players union fought for players not to be adequately tested - they thought Not adequately testing the players was in the players' best interest. so the few users at the time could not be caught. How stupid and awful of the players union. What pieces of garbage.

And MLB did not deem steroid usage a priority, relative to other considerations in negotiations. Also stupid and awful.

The two created a system whereby those who did not do steroids were at a big disadvantage relative to those who did.

The worst part is all the kids who then took steroids all the way up the chain. How many lives destroyed because the players union heads and MLB did not enforce a clean game.

The players to me are the least culpable.

Many gave their spirit up - some MLBers their lives up - to support their families and standard of living - by taking substances known to be severely adverse to health.

But the head of the players union and MLB execs have not faced one earthly ramification for their mal-action.

If I were a voting member of the HOF, I don't know if I could vote for a player who crossed certain lines. are such lines certain steroids, but not other substances? what about amphetamines? we know a lot of players may have used and we might want them very much in the Hall. what about corked bats? again very much may want in the Hall.

So far we have said no players who gambled on baseball in the Hall. and we have perhaps said non-muscle-building banned drug users are ok, as well as perhaps cork - all arguable. Steroids we haven't quite worked out. I haven't quite worked it out.

But the one thing I feel is that the heads of the union and MLB during this time should never be admitted. They are the most culpable. They are the ones who broke the rules most clearly - to care for the players - and to care for the game - respectively.

[BigJJ]

For a pitcher to get in the Hall, I think batters must have had the feeling of 'no matter what I do, I may not have a chance in the world of touching the ball'. even if it was just for several years that batters felt that way.

Koufax had that span, Morris had that span, Rivera made it almost the length of his career.

When these pitchers were at their height, batters just thought 'oh boy, please let me get lucky up here'.