Andy Pettitte will retire at the end of the season

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Yeah, Pettite is certainly a curious case of a modern day workhorse or innings eater who never really completed games. I'm sure a majority of that had to do with the general Yankees philosophy throughout most of his career of just getting to the 7th or 8th inning and handing it over to a usually dominant bullpen.

Andy didn't like giving in to batters in close games either, so he would throw a lot of pitches during most at bats, trying to get guys to chase, nibbling at the corners, giving up lots of walks and singles. Probably a reason why his WHIP was never really an impressive number outside of that one great year with Houston.

I still can't get used to seeing a pitcher throw say seven shutout innings, then get yanked for a reliever. The philosophy of sticking with a hot pitcher rarely applies today. Why not let the guy finish the shutout?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I still can't get used to seeing a pitcher throw say seven shutout innings, then get yanked for a reliever. The philosophy of sticking with a hot pitcher rarely applies today. Why not let the guy finish the shutout?

They are really conscious about pitch counts nowadays, to the point there are now controversies about guys staying in to finish no-hitters, forget about shutouts.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

They are really conscious about pitch counts nowadays, to the point there are now controversies about guys staying in to finish no-hitters, forget about shutouts.

Can you picture any manger now trotting out to the mound and telling Gibson, Drysdale, Marichal, Spahn and any one of many, many pitchers that they are out now because they are at 100 or so pitches.
I think not.
As much as I still enjoy the game of baseball, the pitch counts and the DH are still awful and should not be a part of the game. I am glad that I mostly watch games where there is no DH.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Can you picture any manger now trotting out to the mound and telling Gibson, Drysdale, Marichal, Spahn and any one of many, many pitchers that they are out now because they are at 100 or so pitches.
I think not.
As much as I still enjoy the game of baseball, the pitch counts and the DH are still awful and should not be a part of the game. I am glad that I mostly watch games where there is no DH.

Funny you should mention Marichal. The first game my Dad ever took me to - in 1968 - Juan Marichal pitched a complete 11 inning game, beating the Houston Astros.

[HRBAKER]

Richard,

I'm with you, I hate the DH.
It has a "beer league softball" smell to it to me, all apologies to Edgar Martinez and David Ortiz aside.

[Runscott]

Same here. The pitcher is one of the nine positions on the team - they all are required to hit. If you have pitchers who hit well, you have an advantage - it's part of the strategy of the game. I have despised the DH since its inception.

[BigJJ]

Agree regarding the DH

[baseball tourist]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Same here. The pitcher is one of the nine positions on the team - they all are required to hit. If you have pitchers who hit well, you have an advantage - it's part of the strategy of the game. I have despised the DH since its inception.

I disagree about the DH and do admit that I come from an AL hometown. Watching the game is entertainment, akin to watching a movie or attending a concert for me. I want to see the best talent at the plate, see some hits; not bunt after bunt and strikeout after strikeout. There are very few good hitting pitchers and the "easy out" they add by batting in the NL is to me, disappointing

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I still can't get used to seeing a pitcher throw say seven shutout innings, then get yanked for a reliever. The philosophy of sticking with a hot pitcher rarely applies today. Why not let the guy finish the shutout?

Specialized pitching has completely changed the way that the pitching component of a team is now managed. I do not believe that it is to the benefit of the game FWIW. Unfortunately the horse has left the barn and I don't see this trend changing any time soon...

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Specialized pitching has completely changed the way that the pitching component of a team is now managed. I do not believe that it is to the benefit of the game FWIW. Unfortunately the horse has left the barn and I don't see this trend changing any time soon...

This is sad to me as well. If a pitcher is hot and shows no signs of diminishing... leave him in for God's sake! I have seen so many games blown by rigid managers who have some pre-determined philosophy. Go with the flow of the game, dammit!

And why is the "closer" always saved for just the 9th inning? Anyone who really watches baseball knows that the most critical inning can be the 7th or 8th (based on how many are on base, the # of outs, who's due to bat, righty/lefty matchups, the spot in the line-up, etc.)

I have seen so many games won or lost in the 6th/7th/8th innings, in which the manager saved his "closer" for absolutely no purpose. They should play to the actual situation and critical points in the game... not some pre-scripted vision of how they think it will play out.