SCP Auctions and shipping cost

[ZenPop]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

If it annoys you enough, stop bidding in the auction. If you continue bidding you are implicitly agreeing to these shipping charges. If so, stop whining.

I don't think it's such a bad thing that this is brought into the daylight and discussed. People should be made aware of over-priced shipping charges and people who charge them should be made aware that there is anger about it.

If enough people get upset about it and the company is concerned with its reputation enough... change will occur. Having said that, your point is also good that if everyone complains but keeps fishing in the same pool, there's little incentive for the AH to do anything about it.

...did that cover everything?... ha ha

[oldjudge]

John--think about it for a second. If I ship a $200 card at the post office (the cheapest way to ship one card) and insure it it will cost me about $5. The mailer cost me $1. The gas driving to and from the post office from my current house would cost me about $2 (this doesn't count wear and tear on my car), and this all takes about 45 minutes of my time (you figure out how to value that). What I am saying is that for you or me mailing a card worth $200 it will effectively cost us over $12. The big auction house has to pay for shipping materials, a shipping manager, etc. No matter how much you think the auction house may be ripping you off, I would bet that the shipping area, as a profit center, is a net loser.
Now, you can argue that the buyer's premium should be paying for this. However, that premium must cover all the auction house salaries (except the shipping manager who we already accounted for), insurance, rent, travel to find consignments, entertainment, interest costs on advances, systems work, etc. Remember, virtually no consignor pays a consignment fee any more. In fact, big consignors typically get a kickback from the buyer's commission on their lots. All I'm saying is that this is not a business model that churns out money. It is not unreasonable for auction houses to cover their total shipping costs.

[ZenPop]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

John--think about it for a second. If I ship a $200 card at the post office (the cheapest way to ship one card) and insure it it will cost me about $5. The mailer cost me $1. The gas driving to and from the post office from my current house would cost me about $2 (this doesn't count wear and tear on my car), and this all takes about 45 minutes of my time (you figure out how to value that). What I am saying is that for you or me mailing a card worth $200 it will effectively cost us over $12. The big auction house has to pay for shipping materials, a shipping manager, etc. No matter how much you think the auction house may be ripping you off, I would bet that the shipping area, as a profit center, is a net loser.
Now, you can argue that the buyer's premium should be paying for this. However, that premium must cover all the auction house salaries (except the shipping manager who we already accounted for), insurance, rent, travel to find consignments, entertainment, interest costs on advances, systems work, etc. Remember, virtually no consignor pays a consignment fee any more. In fact, big consignors typically get a kickback from the buyer's commission on their lots. All I'm saying is that this is not a business model that churns out money. It is not unreasonable for auction houses to cover their total shipping costs.

Well... if they had explained it the way you just did, there probably wouldn't be as much anger... right? I don't really have a dog in this fight, because I rarely have enough extra cash to bid on something... but I never like the feeling of being ripped off (it doesn't matter about the amount). I have zero problem paying what at first glance seems like a ripoff, if the explanation makes sense. It's also common sense and makes for good customer service. How tough is it to write a rote response and attach it with the bill explaining the reason for the cost? Cut and paste. Done. ...and a hell of lot less anger.

That's just my $200. (originally two cents, adjusted for inflation and time to write this.)

[William Todd]

I have always had good transactions in years past with Dan and SCP, especially Clay Hill. I think they are quality people. I think the auction houses could tweak their shipping charges somewhat in favor of their clients (us) especially concerning the elevated BP's. On that note, if you buy the Cal Ripken 1980 Charlotte card from Dan for $30,000 on ebay, I would imagine he would cut some slack on that $4.99 shipping charge. The auction houses should consider the same and not make shipping an added profit center.

[autograf]

It seems like many of them have set a floor for shipping charges and instances where folks buy a single card or a small lot, it seems like you're getting the shaft on shipping. Having worked for UPS for almost 30 years, I can tell you it's not cheap to ship stuff. Also owned a UPS store for about four years, so the packing side of it is tough too.

Legendary is the best packers in the industry. Period. They use top notch stuff, bought new, and don't scrimp on materials. What does that mean to the single card guy...not that much probably but they do a great job packing. REA and Heritage are top notch too. The smaller auctions don't spend the money that these big guys do on packing materials and don't have accounts with UPS or FedEx, use USPS, so it's tough to compare the two.

Regardless, like Jay said.....if you don't like it, voice your displeasure and if you don't get satisfaction, don't bid next time. Don't hesitate to tell them that's why you're not bidding as well. I agree with Jay on that whole they may be making a buck or two here, they're losing it there..,.you just hate to be the guy that feels like they're making it off of you all the time....

[sb1]

Having sold online for over 15 years and operating an AH for over 5 years, I have a pretty good feel on shipping costs.

We only use USPS and try to use the most economical way, which on larger lots is always the flat rate boxes. We try to factor in the appropriate shipping and enough to cover the prorated insurance we pay privately. At the end of each auction we are usually a bit short of the break even mark, but not enough to fret. Now we do not have a shipping department and we do recycle some packing materials, AND the USPS boxes are free. So we may have a slight advantage, but we try to keep the 1-3 card purchases that are $100-1000 at $6-12 depending on value, and the larger ones $14-20 again depending on the size, weight and value.

I will say many of the AH's I purchase from do packing to the overkill which is probably part of the inflated shipping. I recently received two SGC slabs in a box triple packaged that you could have fit 20 of them in. This is very much the norm for most of them. Extreme caution on the side of error, but again I would say a real shitstorm would hit if they threw your $2,000 card in a top loader and a legal (or even padded) envelope and you received it resembling a banana.

Most of their base cost seems to be with the carrier they use. Many folks detest one or all three of them, USPS, UPS, and FedEx, but you have to go with one of them. In all of the thousands of items we have sent thru the USPS, only one never got there. A postal employee stole it, the Postal Inspectors caught him and we eventually got the cards back through our insurance company. We have confidence in them and find their pricing to our liking

SO... after all of this I am not really sure I explained or justified anything, just some input that agrees with others, most AH's are not making a profit on the shipping/handling/insurance.

[CaramelMan]

Originally Posted by autograf

It seems like many of them have set a floor for shipping charges and instances where folks buy a single card or a small lot, it seems like you're getting the shaft on shipping. Having worked for UPS for almost 30 years, I can tell you it's not cheap to ship stuff. Also owned a UPS store for about four years, so the packing side of it is tough too.

Legendary is the best packers in the industry. Period. They use top notch stuff, bought new, and don't scrimp on materials. What does that mean to the single card guy...not that much probably but they do a great job packing. REA and Heritage are top notch too. The smaller auctions don't spend the money that these big guys do on packing materials and don't have accounts with UPS or FedEx, use USPS, so it's tough to compare the two.

Regardless, like Jay said.....if you don't like it, voice your displeasure and if you don't get satisfaction, don't bid next time. Don't hesitate to tell them that's why you're not bidding as well. I agree with Jay on that whole they may be making a buck or two here, they're losing it there..,.you just hate to be the guy that feels like they're making it off of you all the time....

I got a winning lot from Love Of the Game Auctions, and it was packed GREAT...maybe even overpacked! so even some smaller guys ship nicely

[ElCabron]

Originally Posted by William Todd

I have always had good transactions in years past with Dan and SCP, especially Clay Hill. I think they are quality people.

Well I wouldn't trust that shady Dan fella, but I couldn't have said better about SCP. Quality people all around. Especially my good friend Dave Kohler. I, too, have always had great transactions with SCP. The best part is their customer service and how well they take care of their customers. When SCP makes a mistake, like if they massively defraud a customer and misrepresent an item by doctoring photos of it and photoshopping damage out so it looks nice and purty in the catalog, or something like that, hypothetically speaking of course, they ALWAYS make it right. Instantly. Period. Just quality, quality people.

I mean, how can you not trust an auction house affiliated with the qualitiest quality person in all of Qualityville, Dave Kohler. Really do love that guy!

Go Dave! SCP rules!

-Ryan

[Jaybird]

Originally Posted by NoizeBringer

Well I wouldn't trust that shady Dan fella, but I couldn't have said better about SCP. Quality people all around. Especially my good friend Dave Kohler. I, too, have always had great transactions with SCP. The best part is their customer service and how well they take care of their customers. When SCP makes a mistake, like if they massively defraud a customer and misrepresent an item by doctoring photos of it and photoshopping damage out so it looks nice and purty in the catalog, or something like that, hypothetically speaking of course, they ALWAYS make it right. Instantly. Period. Just quality, quality people.

I mean, how can you not trust an auction house affiliated with the qualitiest quality person in all of Qualityville, Dave Kohler. Really do love that guy!

Go Dave! SCP rules!

-Ryan

Don't forget selling rebacked cards with no mention of that in the description. And muscling PSA to slab them as Altered - Authentic because they do contain some pieces of authentic cards. No problem there either. Totally above board.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

John--think about it for a second. If I ship a $200 card at the post office (the cheapest way to ship one card) and insure it it will cost me about $5. The mailer cost me $1. The gas driving to and from the post office from my current house would cost me about $2 (this doesn't count wear and tear on my car), and this all takes about 45 minutes of my time (you figure out how to value that). What I am saying is that for you or me mailing a card worth $200 it will effectively cost us over $12. The big auction house has to pay for shipping materials, a shipping manager, etc. No matter how much you think the auction house may be ripping you off, I would bet that the shipping area, as a profit center, is a net loser.
Now, you can argue that the buyer's premium should be paying for this. However, that premium must cover all the auction house salaries (except the shipping manager who we already accounted for), insurance, rent, travel to find consignments, entertainment, interest costs on advances, systems work, etc. Remember, virtually no consignor pays a consignment fee any more. In fact, big consignors typically get a kickback from the buyer's commission on their lots. All I'm saying is that this is not a business model that churns out money. It is not unreasonable for auction houses to cover their total shipping costs.

+1

Joe

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

John--think about it for a second. If I ship a $200 card at the post office (the cheapest way to ship one card) and insure it it will cost me about $5. The mailer cost me $1. The gas driving to and from the post office from my current house would cost me about $2 (this doesn't count wear and tear on my car), and this all takes about 45 minutes of my time (you figure out how to value that). What I am saying is that for you or me mailing a card worth $200 it will effectively cost us over $12. The big auction house has to pay for shipping materials, a shipping manager, etc. No matter how much you think the auction house may be ripping you off, I would bet that the shipping area, as a profit center, is a net loser.
Now, you can argue that the buyer's premium should be paying for this. However, that premium must cover all the auction house salaries (except the shipping manager who we already accounted for), insurance, rent, travel to find consignments, entertainment, interest costs on advances, systems work, etc. Remember, virtually no consignor pays a consignment fee any more. In fact, big consignors typically get a kickback from the buyer's commission on their lots. All I'm saying is that this is not a business model that churns out money. It is not unreasonable for auction houses to cover their total shipping costs.

Jay - well said. Interestingly enough, there are individuals complaining about a few extra shipping cost bucks that set up at card shows and substantiate their seemingly high sticker prices due to the card show's overall overhead (table costs, gas, hotels, meals, etc. - which I TOTALLY agree with). Yet, these same individuals seem to conveniently dismiss the auction houses overhead as if their winning lots are magically packed and handled at ZERO costs??? Remember folks, the FINAL shipping fee is CLEARLY listed as shipping, handling and insurance....NOT JUST SHIPPING.

Joe T.

[bobbyw8469]

Remember folks, the FINAL shipping fee is CLEARLY listed as shipping, handling and insurance....NOT JUST SHIPPING.

Most of the bidders bid on ALL the various auction houses. I think what has happened is that some of the auction houses (Sterling with their speedy shipments and refunding of fees, REA with their FREE shipping, etc), has spoiled some of us bidders. So when someone charges what is perceived as an obscene amount (and yes, everyone knows what is acceptable), it infuriates some of us.

[npa589]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Most of the bidders bid on ALL the various auction houses. I think what has happened is that some of the auction houses (Sterling with their speedy shipments and refunding of fees, REA with their FREE shipping, etc), has spoiled some of us bidders. So when someone charges what is perceived as an obscene amount (and yes, everyone knows what is acceptable), it infuriates some of us.

This is true in a way, but it could also be looked at as intelligent people starting AHs to compete with the AHs who used to monopolize the hobby, and to compete, they're making alterations to aspects of their venture according to what they thought was wrong (is wrong) with the said AHs. So, due to the success of these new AHs, the largest ones are going to need to start matching the level of personalized customer service, and non-inflated S&H costs - or this "bad publicity" (truth) is going to really begin to affect them. It's simple business. If Dan feels it, though he may announce it differently, he is speaking the thoughts of many bidders.

[David R]

I get more annoyed having to see the same ridiculously priced BIN cards cluttering up eBay for literally years and this includes many of Dan's cards.


Dav.id Re.is

[tschock]

Originally Posted by David R

I get more annoyed having to see the same ridiculously priced BIN cards cluttering up eBay for literally years and this includes many of Dan's cards.

David, Did it ever occur to you that maybe that's how you sit on several million dollars worth of cards?

[ValKehl]

I have long felt that most of the big auction houses with the glossy catalogs and large BPs charge too much for shipping. And, I have assumed this is due to (1) their refusal/reluctance to ship via the USPS, which is usually the most economical method, and (2) their intent to recoup ALL of their costs associated with shipping from their charges to the winning bidders.

I strongly feel (not that any of these AHs care what I feel) that their shipping charges should cover ONLY outside costs (and not their inside costs, such as a shipping manager - these inside costs should be covered by the BP!). I believe this is what most of the online-only AHs, such as B&L and Sterling, strive to do, and I applaud them for this.

Some have suggested that I stop bidding with the big AHs that "overcharge" for shipping. But, of course, I can't bring myself to do this because the "stuff" trumps everything. But, I do very definitely take the BP and shipping charges into account when I bid. In other words, if the exact same card were in both a SCP auction and a B&L/Sterling auction, I would bid higher for this card in the B&L/Sterling auction, so that my total cost would be the same with either auction.
Val

[timn1]

Originally Posted by tschock

David, Did it ever occur to you that maybe that's how you sit on several million dollars worth of cards?

LMFAO --

PS: Dan, my friend, you can spare the $17 -- better than those blood vessels you're about to blow.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Jay - well said. Interestingly enough, there are individuals complaining about a few extra shipping cost bucks that set up at card shows and substantiate their seemingly high sticker prices due to the card show's overall overhead (table costs, gas, hotels, meals, etc. - which I TOTALLY agree with). Yet, these same individuals seem to conveniently dismiss the auction houses overhead as if their winning lots are magically packed and handled at ZERO costs???

I agree with the intent of your comment, but it's not quite 100% accurate. Now IF the shipping fee was including in the BP, then it would be the pot calling the kettle black. However the difference is that the shipping fee is IN ADDITION TO the BP, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Would you be happy if also added "S&H from the AH where I bought the stuff" to the list their overall overhead?

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Remember folks, the FINAL shipping fee is CLEARLY listed as shipping, handling and insurance....NOT JUST SHIPPING.
Joe T.

I think the point is (or should be) that the "shipping, handling and insurance" tends to be a "surprise" number with many AHs and is "CLEARLY listed" AFTER the fact of purchase. Some just have a general weasel-word description mentioning "reasonable costs" regarding S&H. The real question/debate is around "what is reasonable".