Net54 Exemplar File

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by Maddog

Love the idea. This is exactly what the hobby needs and I'll contribute whatever I can.
The only problem I see is, as mentioned, it's probably better to describe what makes a particular autograph "good" versus just posting a photo. Not sure how many to the "Top Guns" would share that hard learned knowledge.
Also, I remember discussing this with an esteemed member here a while back and we agreed that to do something like this really well would be about the size of a dozen volume set
It's worth a shot.

I think its a Great idea too , In fact a sensational idea ...in theory, But in practice ? Don't know.

I can speak for most autograph dealers/collectors at least the ones that I know and they have never been cheap with their time or efforts to help with authentication and most of us do it for free or a nominal fee.

Its not like there is some deep dark secret in sharing the WHY either .....but usually the WHY can't be condensed into a 30 second sound bite or cookie cutter description of slant , formation etc.

The best example I can think of is I turn on my car one morning and hear a clacking noise, Knowing nothing about mechanics I take it to the guy that works on my car who's been working on cars for 40 years and before I even get half way in the driveway he says "Oh.... its the catalytic condenser filter whats a whos it"

Now my answer to that is "Can you fix it ? & How long will it take ?" ........OR..........I can ask him "HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ? or WHY ?"

Now if he was kind enough to pull up a chair and TRY and condense what it has taken him 40 years to learn into ...maybe an hour, As intently as I would try and listen I would not have a CLUE what he was talking about.

I hate to admit this but I have never even read the "owners manual" for my car.... Does anyone ???

Well explaining the what's and whys of if an autograph is real (or not) IN DETAIL is a lot like that. No great genius at work. Just time and practice.

Albert Einstein was asked once if he carried around a note pad and pencil with him....he asked "Why?" and the interviewer said "In case you get any great ideas you can write them down and share them" and Einstein said "I rarely get any good ideas" ... (apparently when he got them they were REAL DOOZIES) .....point is time and practice makes a lot of seemingly complicated things second nature , from physics to car care and everything in between
__________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Jim Stinson Buying and Selling Vintage Baseball Autographs
stinsonsports.com

[David Atkatz]

What he said.

[JimStinson]

jim@stinsonsports.com

[Runscott]

I agree with what Jim said and I find all the "is this Mantle real?" threads at least interesting enough to open.

Random is fine with me. Just thought maybe we could channel some of the expertise that we have here.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

I think its a Great idea too , In fact a sensational idea ...in theory, But in practice ? Don't know.

+1

To untrained eyes, decent fakes "look the same" as real exemplars. A gallery of verified exemplars might help someone get their start, but will not be a shortcut to expertise.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

+1

To untrained eyes, decent fakes "look the same" as real exemplars. A gallery of verified exemplars might help someone get their start, but will not be a shortcut to expertise.

Interesting thought - I hadn't thought of this as a shortcut to expertise, or even to help someone get their start. I was merely thinking of a way to gather the forum's expertise in such a way that people would have things (either discussion threads or exemplars) to look at before they started new "hey, is this real?" threads.

But it looks like very few (if any) of the forum's experts are interested in such an idea. Let me ask it a different way: we've proposed grouping 'exemplar' discussion threads under player 'area' instead of actually posting exemplars. Is this a workable solution? Or is that also too much like sharing expertise?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Interesting thought - I hadn't thought of this as a shortcut to expertise, or even to help someone get their start. I was merely thinking of a way to gather the forum's expertise in such a way that people would have things (either discussion threads or exemplars) to look at before they started new "hey, is this real?" threads.

But it looks like very few (if any) of the forum's experts are interested in such an idea. Let me ask it a different way: we've proposed grouping 'exemplar' discussion threads under player 'area' instead of actually posting exemplars. Is this a workable solution? Or is that also too much like sharing expertise?

Scott- I think there is a lot of interest and even more apathy.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

Scott- I think there is a lot of interest and even more apathy.

Apathy is absolutely fine - I just don't want to ruffle feathers.

Personally, I think 'gathering worthy threads' is the best option.

Not sure how that would work logistically, but choosing the threads doesn't have to be done all at once. I'll start bookmarking the ones that I think are good.

[chaddurbin]

i don't think your suggestion ruffles any feathers with the experts around. you can group hundreds of exemplars around here and it won't affect the business of the stinson & simon firm . as they've said many times comparing examplars is the first and LAST step they do. good forgers are trained to copy good signatures. it doesn't make you an expert or know how to authenticate by comparing known good examplars, autographing is not cut and dry like a reprinted t206 or fake cracker jack.

imo there's a danger when you put up the examplars w/o context or reference and someone looking through say well this T lines up to that authentic T perfectly and the ending stroke is spot on in that Speaker so mine must be real...the good forgers prey on that kind of holiday inn express authentication.

[travrosty]

or as i call it, psa or jsa authentication. holiday inn express authentication is preferable.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i don't think your suggestion ruffles any feathers with the experts around. you can group hundreds of exemplars around here and it won't affect the business of the stinson & simon firm . as they've said many times comparing examplars is the first and LAST step they do. good forgers are trained to copy good signatures. it doesn't make you an expert or know how to authenticate by comparing known good examplars, autographing is not cut and dry like a reprinted t206 or fake cracker jack.

imo there's a danger when you put up the examplars w/o context or reference and someone looking through say well this T lines up to that authentic T perfectly and the ending stroke is spot on in that Speaker so mine must be real...the good forgers prey on that kind of holiday inn express authentication.

+1 , perfectly stated !!! Context & reference VERY, VERY important and let me briefly add that from "This side" when I tell someone I don't believe an autograph is good, Often the rebuttal is "Well it LOOKS just like the other ones"........IT IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE THE "OTHER" ONES !!! A forger is not intent on "blazing a new trail" and making his "different" from the other ones..
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

I buy & sell Vintage Baseball autographs
stinsonsports.com

[Runscott]

Thanks for the helpful comment, Travis. Do you have anything to add that would pertain to the actual topic?