Braun Suspended for Balance of the 2013 Season

[DixieBaseball]

I wonder if he was cheating back when he played with the Nashville Sounds? Yet another clean player's roster spot has been stolen from them. Glad to see baseball continue to move in the right direction. I would like to not only see a suspension, but also make the player go down to Triple A to spend a year probation. I think this would really curb the cheating. Spending a year back down in the minor's would be very sobering after being in the big's... I don't think taking money away sends the message. Time to ride the bus again for several months might change the thinking...

[drcy]

If Braun's career tanks and the Brewers are on the hook for $100 million, that will work as incentive for the teams, the folks signing the contracts, to prevent players from taking PEDs.

Everyone but the ostriches in Wisconsin said he was probably on PEDs. If the Brewers were still willing to sign him to a $100 million contract, that's their own fault when he gets caught. Maybe next time the Brewers will steer clear of players they know are PED users.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by drcy

If Braun's career tanks and the Brewers are on the hook for $100 million, that will work as incentive for the teams, the folks signing the contracts, to prevent players from taking PEDs.

Everyone but the ostriches in Wisconsin said he was probably on PEDs. If the Brewers were still willing to sign him to a $100 million contract, that's their own fault when he gets caught. Maybe next time the Brewers will steer clear of players they know are PED users.

Don't let anything like the facts get in the way of your stupid diatribe.

Ryan Braun signed his extension prior to the 2011 season (April of 2011). His positive urine test came in the postseason of the 2011 season (October 2011), and the story broke in December of 2011. Eight months later.

So, by what stretch of the imagination did the Brewers extend a known PED user?

As for us "ostriches" in Wisconsin, I'm relatively certain that every single Brewers fan, myself included, accepted that there was a very good possibility that Ryan Braun was indeed guilty of what he'd been accused. The difference between us and everybody else, it seems, is that we decided to wait for the facts to come out before assassinating somebody's reputation. A lot of people were ready to take what ESPN was reporting as cold-hard facts, even though their story seemingly changed by the day ("Ryan Braun is being suspended for using PED". "Ryan Braun is being suspended for using a banned substance". "Ryan Braun tested positive for a banned substance being used to treat a STD".) ESPN completely lacks in journalistic integrity, yet people were treating their word as the Bible. Never mind that the appeals process in place for baseball players was supposed to be confidential. ESPN didn't care if they ruined his reputation sans facts. They cared more about their web hits, their television ratings, and their magazine sales.

[HRBAKER]

It may be more than just a passing coincidence that he decided to step forward and acknowledge his mistakes after the good doctor at the clinic began cooperating with MLB.

I've sat where your sitting being a Cardinals fan. Personally I think what McGwire did to the HR record in 1998 is reprehensible in hindsight.

I'm long passed giving any of them the benefit of the doubt, they've proven me gullible too many times.

Edited to add: It would be truly refreshing if you were right.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

It may be more than just a passing coincidence that he decided to step forward and acknowledge his mistakes after the good doctor at the clinic began cooperating with MLB.

I've sat where your sitting being a Cardinals fan. Personally I think what McGwire did to the HR record in 1998 is reprehensible in hindsight.

I'm long passed giving any of them the benefit of the doubt, they've proven me gullible too many times.

Edited to add: It would be truly refreshing if you were right.

As a diehard Cub fan, I still believe that you can add Sammy Sosa to the list of PED guys. I personally believe Braun got caught the first time and even though the chain of evidence was broken, he still took a prohibited substance. You can accurately believe that whatever they found in the urine test was what he was taking. It's not rocket science to figure that point out. Even worse, he lied about it. I strongly believe that if he were innocent and did not do anything wrong, he would and should fight the charges tooth and nail. Revoking his MVP title should be a no brainier.

[the 'stache]

Ok, everybody regurgitating the "Braun got off on a technicality" meme please read this. Enlighten yourselves.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nicality-bull/

I think Braun got tired of fighting. MLB accused him once, threatened to suspend him, he fought it tooth and nail, and his defense team proved their client's assertion. The independent arbiter looked at all the scientific evidence, notes from expert testimony...for months, and for the first time ever, overturned MLB's ban. Ok, whew. "Now, I can go on with my life again". Only MLB comes at him again. Threatens to ban him for 100 games, 150 games, or for life...and makes this information public through their little lap dog (ESPN). It became clear that MLB was going to do whatever it took to suspend Braun, even if it meant giving full immunity to the guys that supposedly sold these drugs to all the MLB players. There was no scientific evidence proving guilt, only the word of Anthony Bosch, a man when I see him on television, I feel like I have to take a shower. Oh, and the word of Bosch's employees. Very reliable, I'm sure. Enough to basically force Braun to bow down.

At what point does one just throw up their hands and say "enough is enough"? His reputation was already dragged through the mud. How much more was the guy going to fight?

Don't be so quick to vilify him until the facts come out (if they ever do).

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Ok, everybody regurgitating the "Braun got off on a technicality" meme please read this. Enlighten yourselves.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nicality-bull/

I think Braun got tired of fighting. MLB accused him once, threatened to suspend him, he fought it tooth and nail, and his defense team proved their client's assertion. The independent arbiter looked at all the scientific evidence, notes from expert testimony...for months, and for the first time ever, overturned MLB's ban. Ok, whew. "Now, I can go on with my life again". Only MLB comes at him again. Threatens to ban him for 100 games, 150 games, or for life...and makes this information public through their little lap dog (ESPN). It became clear that MLB was going to do whatever it took to suspend Braun, even if it meant giving full immunity to the guys that supposedly sold these drugs to all the MLB players. There was no scientific evidence proving guilt, only the word of Anthony Bosch, a man when I see him on television, I feel like I have to take a shower. Oh, and the word of Bosch's employees. Very reliable, I'm sure. Enough to basically force Braun to bow down.

At what point does one just throw up their hands and say "enough is enough"? His reputation was already dragged through the mud. How much more was the guy going to fight?

Don't be so quick to vilify him until the facts come out (if they ever do).

Eh...ummmm...you don't really believe that Braun is innocent do you?

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Ok, everybody regurgitating the "Braun got off on a technicality" meme please read this. Enlighten yourselves.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nicality-bull/

I think Braun got tired of fighting. MLB accused him once, threatened to suspend him, he fought it tooth and nail, and his defense team proved their client's assertion. The independent arbiter looked at all the scientific evidence, notes from expert testimony...for months, and for the first time ever, overturned MLB's ban. Ok, whew. "Now, I can go on with my life again". Only MLB comes at him again. Threatens to ban him for 100 games, 150 games, or for life...and makes this information public through their little lap dog (ESPN). It became clear that MLB was going to do whatever it took to suspend Braun, even if it meant giving full immunity to the guys that supposedly sold these drugs to all the MLB players. There was no scientific evidence proving guilt, only the word of Anthony Bosch, a man when I see him on television, I feel like I have to take a shower. Oh, and the word of Bosch's employees. Very reliable, I'm sure. Enough to basically force Braun to bow down.

At what point does one just throw up their hands and say "enough is enough"? His reputation was already dragged through the mud. How much more was the guy going to fight?

Don't be so quick to vilify him until the facts come out (if they ever do).

Maybe they should have DNA tested the sample as additional requirements to prove the sample came from Braun. Human body fluids should have some cells proving who the sample came from. LOL

[stewbacca]

Your defense for Braun really resembles Lance Armstrongs defense. Tired of fighting the rumors, blame and brand Floyd Landis as well as the others as liars and cheats themselves(so they should have no credibility). I would love for him to be clean both for himself and for me as a brewers fan and baseball fan, but the company you keep really tells the story. I appreciate that you are defending him, but if baseball really had nothing on him, do you really think they would suspend him? I think they have many more fact than you and I could imagine. Those were presented to him and his counsel and he got off with only a 65 game suspension. I think he is lucky and he knows it. What if MLB went public with everything they had on him? The lurid facts could ruin him and his career but they give him a way out. Armstrong had so many people fooled(not me), but the extent of his cheating blew my mind. And the drugs didn't make Armstrong bigger, it made him recover faster among other things.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Ok, everybody regurgitating the "Braun got off on a technicality" meme please read this. Enlighten yourselves.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nicality-bull/

I think Braun got tired of fighting. MLB accused him once, threatened to suspend him, he fought it tooth and nail, and his defense team proved their client's assertion. The independent arbiter looked at all the scientific evidence, notes from expert testimony...for months, and for the first time ever, overturned MLB's ban. Ok, whew. "Now, I can go on with my life again". Only MLB comes at him again. Threatens to ban him for 100 games, 150 games, or for life...and makes this information public through their little lap dog (ESPN). It became clear that MLB was going to do whatever it took to suspend Braun, even if it meant giving full immunity to the guys that supposedly sold these drugs to all the MLB players. There was no scientific evidence proving guilt, only the word of Anthony Bosch, a man when I see him on television, I feel like I have to take a shower. Oh, and the word of Bosch's employees. Very reliable, I'm sure. Enough to basically force Braun to bow down.

At what point does one just throw up their hands and say "enough is enough"? His reputation was already dragged through the mud. How much more was the guy going to fight?

Don't be so quick to vilify him until the facts come out (if they ever do).

You are joking right?
Bill, Braun admitted it! Didn't you read his statement....the MLBPA was PROUD that he admitted it....

I think you should stop posting in this thread.....

[howard38]

/

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

It may be more than just a passing coincidence that he decided to step forward and acknowledge his mistakes after the good doctor at the clinic began cooperating with MLB.

I've sat where your sitting being a Cardinals fan. Personally I think what McGwire did to the HR record in 1998 is reprehensible in hindsight.

I'm long passed giving any of them the benefit of the doubt, they've proven me gullible too many times.

While I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, respectfully, I have to say these situations are a little different, Jeff. McGwire was a pretty big guy as a rookie with the A's, but by the time he was hitting his 70 home runs with the Cardinals, he was just huge. In 1987 he was 6'5" 213 lbs. In 1998, he was listed as 6'5" 250 pounds. In 2007, Ryan Braun was 6'1" 202 lbs. In 2012, he was 6'1" 210 pounds. Braun added some muscle, but his body mass didn't bloat up like McGwires. Big Mac added 37 pounds. Also, Ryan Braun, if you look at his numbers, has hit pretty much the same number of home runs every year, save for 2010 when he hurt his hand. As a rookie, he hit 34 home runs in 492 at bats (once every 14.47 at bats). In 2012, he hit 41 home runs in 598 at bats (once every 14.58 at bats). He's been consistent across the board. There haven't been any substantial jumps in his performance that one would associate with taking performance enhancing drugs.

I agree with you that cheating in any form is reprehensible, and I know I'm probably coming off as a homer by not jumping on the "let's hang Ryan Braun as a scum bag" bandwagon. But we haven't heard the real facts of what happened with Braun. His reputation was already shot because of the first suspension + overturn (he clearly got off on a technicality, right? Nevermind that science has shown how improper storage of a specimen can skew results. See Diane Modhal). It's clear that MLB had it out for him (they were willing to give a complete pass to the dirt bags who were dealing drugs in order to "get their guys"), and they were going to suspend him no matter what he did. Isn't it at least possible that Braun said to himself "since I'm suspended no matter what I do, why not take a lesser suspension now. My thumb is still messed up, so I can get healthy. The team is 18 games out of first place, Corey Hart is out for the season, as is Aramis Ramirez pretty much. We can't compete with our three best power hitters out. Better I serve now that the season is lost than fight this, and possibly have to face suspension next year".

We don't know what he took. We don't know if this all relates back to the 2011 suspension, or if this is something new. But it's clear that MLB was on a witch hunt of sorts. No confidentiality whatsoever. They aired their dirty laundry in public for all to see. Hell, when his suspension was overturned by Shyam Das, a well respected arbiter (and somebody who looked at all the evidence for three months beforre making his ruling), MLB fired him. What chance did Ryan Braun have? At what point does a player just throw up his hands after being beaten into submission for nearly two years? I'm not saying he's an angel at all. He did something wrong. But it really appears to me that we're not seeing the whole picture. If he got off on a technicality, why did it take Das so long to reach his decision? One would think that would be an open and shut case, right? Or was there a lot more compelling evidence that we haven't seen? Braun's Brewer teammates have come forward to say "if the public knew the truth, we'd think differently". Aaron Rodgers of the Packers said he'd bet his 2013 salary that he was innocent. Are all these guys dead from the neck up? Or is there something we've not yet seen?

It's possible I'm grasping at straws, and that Ryan has played everybody for a fool for a very long time. But there's something inside me that says we're only getting one half of the story. Ryan hasn't spoken at length before, as he was bound by the confidentiality clause of the arbitration process. Maybe now he can do so.

I don't know, I'm just sick of this whole thing. It's ruined my enjoyment of this season. It's been a dark cloud circling over 2013's head.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

ESPN completely lacks in journalistic integrity, yet people were treating their word as the Bible. Never mind that the appeals process in place for baseball players was supposed to be confidential. ESPN didn't care if they ruined his reputation sans facts. They cared more about their web hits, their television ratings, and their magazine sales.

Being a Bay Area native (BALCO) and Giants fan, I've engaged in enough steroid talk to last a life time, and feel little need to weigh in on Braun.. except in saying that I had little/no suspicion of his PED use prior to the 2011 test. His swing looked pure, his power seemed body & hip generated, but oh well.

Anyway, I totally agree about ESPN. I grew up watching ESPN, but have grown tired of what they've become. They have little to no integrity, and seem far more interested in getting a story out first, rather than being right.. hey, they can just correct themselves later (sadly this seems the case with most news outlets now). I was also very put off having been told first hand a few years back that a major sports network (ESPN strongly hinted) was offering six figures to someone that had priveledged access to the Mitchell Report. Apparently they eventually got to someone or several people as those names trickled out one by one for weeks... just as grand jury testimony had leaked prior. I'm not saying that ESPN or its reporters had a hand in this dirtiness, but I had season tickets at AT&T park during this period and got so sick of seeing Pedro Gomez and his camara guy wandering around my section like vultures for 2 straight years.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Being a Bay Area native (BALCO) and Giants fan, I've engaged in enough steroid talk to last a life time, and feel little need to weigh in on Braun.. except in saying that I had little/no suspicion of his PED use prior to the 2011 test. His swing looked pure, his power seemed body & hip generated, but oh well.

I agree, and I've been watching Braun closely since he first stepped on the field at Miller Park (in addition to the footage I've seen of him in the minors, and back at Miami). I see a guy that's a career .312 hitter...strong, but lean. He generates incredible bat speed with very fluid mechanics. He's got a really fast twitch, strong legs, and powerful wrists. That allows him to hit with power to all fields.

After the story was leaked, all I seemed to read was "well, Braun is only a great hitter because he has Prince Fielder behind him. Pitchers have to throw to him, so he gets more good pitches to hit". Then he has the best year of his career in 2012 while Prince is in Detroit backing up Miguel Cabrera.

This is why I still don't believe that he took performance enhancers. I know he took something, but I just don't see a guy that's benefiting from juicing up. This isn't a guy hitting 60-70 home runs a season. He's consistent in all aspects of the game. He's pretty much famous in Milwaukee for his work ethic.

There's often more to stories like this, and I think when the other shoe drops, some opinions will change.

[Iron Horse]

The only way you are going to clean up the sport is to put a clause in their contracts that will allow teams to void their contracts & are suspended for one year the first time you are caught. Your team then will have the right to sign you for 50% of your original contract or release you and you can't sign for any more then 50% of your original contract with any other team as well for 2 years.

[chaddurbin]

mlbpa is too strong, it's not realistic that they're just gonna drop the guaranteed contract clause just to clean up the game. would be a great step forward if that could get done.

if arod's team is smart they'd try to negotiate the same punishment as braun for this year, but i think mlb is pulling out the big hammer for arod. he admitted ped use in '03 (strike 1), link to biogenesis (strike 2), then lying about the association (strike 3!).

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Iron Horse

The only way you are going to clean up the sport is to put a clause in their contracts that will allow teams to void their contracts & are suspended for one year the first time you are caught. Your team then will have the right to sign you for 50% of your original contract or release you and you can't sign for any more then 50% of your original contract with any other team as well for 2 years.

Poor idea. Do you really think teams care if their stars are using if they are bringing people to the park and not getting caught? I don't. So why should they get the benefit of making money off the cheaters while they haven't tested dirty and then wash their hands of the contract when they do? They are complicit and should have to eat it too IMO.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Being a Bay Area native (BALCO) and Giants fan, I've engaged in enough steroid talk to last a life time, and feel little need to weigh in on Braun.. except in saying that I had little/no suspicion of his PED use prior to the 2011 test. His swing looked pure, his power seemed body & hip generated, but oh well.

Anyway, I totally agree about ESPN. I grew up watching ESPN, but have grown tired of what they've become. They have little to no integrity, and seem far more interested in getting a story out first, rather than being right.. hey, they can just correct themselves later (sadly this seems the case with most news outlets now). I was also very put off having been told first hand a few years back that a major sports network (ESPN strongly hinted) was offering six figures to someone that had priveledged access to the Mitchell Report. Apparently they eventually got to someone or several people as those names trickled out one by one for weeks... just as grand jury testimony had leaked prior. I'm not saying that ESPN or its reporters had a hand in this dirtiness, but I had season tickets at AT&T park during this period and got so sick of seeing Pedro Gomez and his camara guy wandering around my section like vultures for 2 straight years.

I posted this years ago, I thought he was surely on something by the LOOK OF HIS EYES....he has that drug induced "pinned open eyes " where his entire iris was visible...looked like he had a "shocked" look on his face all the time...this is not a normal look and I thought he was on speed/uppers but it was way more than that

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

I posted this years ago, I thought he was surely on something by the LOOK OF HIS EYES....he has that drug induced "pinned open eyes " where his entire iris was visible...looked like he had a "shocked" look on his face all the time...this is not a normal look and I thought he was on speed/uppers but it was way more than that

Sorry, but that seems like a real stretch. Not saying you didn't believe he was using well before all this, but that reasoning is pretty "loose" to say the least. My guess is when this is all over, his eyes will look much the same as before.

I guess Reche Caldwell, and any other big/wide eyed athletes are on the juice too?

theeyes9zx_display_image.jpg

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Sorry, but that seems like a real stretch. Not saying you didn't believe he was using well before all this, but that reasoning is pretty "loose" to say the least. My guess is when this is all over, his eyes will look much the same as before.

I guess Reche Caldwell, and any other big/wide eyed athletes are on the juice too?

Attachment 107619

It is a stretch. I have very slightly recessed sockets because of my osteogenesis imperfecta. I also have blue-tinted sclera, and I certainly have never used any performance enhancing drugs.