Fake 52Topps mantle on Ebay

[asw37]

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[thecatspajamas]

Why is the PSA slab shattered like that, but the surrounding frame job appears unabashed?

Also, you do realize that by refusing to answer questions and put these concerns to rest, you will wind up costing yourself far more in final bid price than what it would cost to completely redo the framing, right? For every potential bidder who took the time to ask questions, there are a dozen others that take a pass for the same reasons. All those lost bids really do add up.

[asw37]

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[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by asw37

that slab is not shattered, it is creasing in the back of the card, there is no crack in the slab.

I was actually referring to the front view, but now that I look at the back more closely, I see what you mean about the creasing.

I still stand by the rest of my statement though. You're not doing yourself any favors by taking a combative stance rather than helping assuage bidders' doubts.

[asw37]

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[whitehse]

The circus hasn't come out as you mentioned. This is a message board where people talk about *gasp* sports cards and your item happens to fit that criteria. You are doing yourself no favors by not showing that card out of the frame as others have mentioned. Do what you want...we are just offering opinions.

Now I need to get back to my clown car and get ready for the next showing of the Net54 Circus.

[Texxxx]

I agree with most here. Take it out and make some scans. It want destroy the frame to take it out. It needs a new mat on the back anyway because of the creases.

[asw37]

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[nsaddict]

Sorry, the card is fake in my opinion. The borders are narrow all the way around, check others on ebay and you will see the difference. You should send it to PSA to take a look at it but doubt you would. Did you buy this on craigslist? Please list the auction house with date and lot number.

[Eric72]

Andrew,

I don't have enough experience with the 1952 Topps Mantle to weigh in on its authenticity. Having said this, I will offer you an opinion regarding eBay, where I have sold numerous things across the span of 10+ years.

If it was my item (and it's not - this is just an opinion) I would consider ending the auction and re-listing it with the correct card number in the title.

I would also then be prepared to answer any and all questions that came down the pike from prospective bidders...whether they present their question directly through eBay or on a forum such as this.

Additionally, I would treat all such queries seriously, and put my best customer service foot forward. After all, we are discussing a sale in the thousands of dollars. This may not be a big deal to some; however, it would be a high priority endeavor for me.

Please forgive me if this rubs you the wrong way. I truly am just trying to add value to the conversation here.

Best Regards,

Eric

[xcgrammer]

Andrew my apologies. Believe me I know typo's can happen. Was in poor taste. I actually believe the card to be real as well. Just seems like an odd thing to frame. But to each his own.

[ATP]

For reference sake, here is a similar piece that sold on eBay, framed in the same manner.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...p2047675.l2557

Interestingly enough the Mantle sig is not good on it in my opinion. The color of the Mantle card and creasing is very similar to the OP's. Unless the camera flash is doing something odd, the creasing does not appear right on either, it's just too white at the breaks especially on the reverse.

[ATP]

And here is the OP's from a couple months back, from a seller with 4 feedback.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantl...p2047675.l2557

Look at the creasing evident in the photos from this listing, it is not natural in any way in my opinion.

[Sean1125]

Everything about this card leads me to believe it is a 100% authentic variation A 1952 Mickey Mantle.

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by asw37

Please dont call my card fake when you have no proof. I have done 2000+ transactions on ebay with no issues. This framed card and business card combo was purchased from a prestigious, well known auction. Because I will not break open a framed piece, the card is now fake? I am all for being open, but you are just a total moron calling me out and falsely calling this fake, simply because I will not cater to you and destroy a nice display piece.

Its funny, I can list any t206 or vintage card in a psa slab, but now my slabbed mantle is being attacked because I will not break a framed product.

Also, Xcgrammer, thanks for the contribution to the conversation, you seem like the type of guy who keeps all of his buddies laughing! I made a typo when listing the number and it has had offers on it since, preventing me from revising.

There are red flags all over your auction starting with no returns. How about a bit more information as to who this prestigious auction house was from where you purchased it. If you are asking someone to pony up nearly 10K for this auction a bit more information and reassurance from you would go a long way to selling this item. Or perhaps as the prestigious auction house to sell it for you again.

[asw37]

Originally Posted by whitehse

There are red flags all over your auction starting with no returns. How about a bit more information as to who this prestigious auction house was from where you purchased it. If you are asking someone to pony up nearly 10K for this auction a bit more information and reassurance from you would go a long way to selling this item. Or perhaps as the prestigious auction house to sell it for you again.

First off, where is this 10,000 price tag coming from? I feel like one idiot attacks and then circus comes out. I am obviosly not going to win arguing here. All I know is that PSA and I both know that this card is real. There are some great collectors and others like the troll who started this thread. I don't know what I am not answering. He asked me to show him the card outside of the frame. I dont realy see a grey area between yes or now where I could accomidate him.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by asw37

First off, where is this 10,000 price tag coming from? I feel like one idiot attacks and then circus comes out. I am obviosly not going to win arguing here. All I know is that PSA and I both know that this card is real. There are some great collectors and others like the troll who started this thread. I don't know what I am not answering. He asked me to show him the card outside of the frame. I dont realy see a grey area between yes or now where I could accomidate him.

Firstly, you're not going to ingratiate yourself here by calling posters "idiots" and "morons" for expressing what are valid concerns about your auction. I know if I were selling a piece that could conceivably fetch several thousand dollars, I would bend over backwards to allay the fears a potential buyer might have. You're already fighting an uphill battle because of your no return policy, and the inflexibility in your reply raised another red flag. Then followed your comment "all I know is that PSA and I both know that this card is real" is a little disconcerting, too. Are you unaware of the problem that exists with PSA slabs being faked and cracked? Don't ever assume a card is legitimate because it is encapsulated by a third party grader. Any collector worth their mettle will tell you that you buy the card, not the grade. Additionally, the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is one of the most often faked/altered cards in the hobby, and asking for additional pictures is not only smart, but pretty much accepted etiquette within the hobby.

One of my friends owns a well-respected art gallery in Las Vegas, and deals extensively with custom framing jobs like this one (including custom pieces he has done for me). Based on prior conversations we've had, I'm relatively certain that the Mantle card could be removed for closer inspection without doing permanent damage to the frame and display. You might need to take it to an art dealer to have this done, and they might charge you a nominal fee, but wouldn't it be worth it? What's $50 to a buyer that is going to spend $3,500 on a card? It could mean peace of mind, and get you a sale.

In your initial response to the member inquiring about the piece, you could have mentioned that the piece was purchased from an auction house. If you have provenance to help to establish the legitimacy of the piece, you would be well served to provide that information. You don't have to show them what you paid, but a sales receipt showing your name and address, along with the description and picture(s) of the piece, could help legitimize your piece.

As for my original assertion that the card could fetch $10,000, I freely admit I misread the grade on the Mantle. I've been in the hospital fighting sepsis for two weeks after breaking my leg in two places, and with the glare on my tiny laptop screen, my fever and multiple medications and antibiotics floating throughout my body, I goofed. I thought I saw the grade was higher than a 1. However, you have a lot of nerve to suggest that I or any other member of this forum are members of some circus. Because of the money involved, this hobby, unfortunately, is rife with with unscrupulous people looking to rip off honest enthusiasts. As such, the members of this forum use their vast knowledge and experience to help police the hobby, and when we see something that raises suspicion, we will alert the other members. We protect one another, as well as others that might fall victim to deceitful auctions on Ebay. In this case, Eugene stated he suspected your card was fake, and provided supporting reasons as to his opinion. I interpreted his topic as an alert to anybody who might be in the market for this particular card. I did not see anything that could be construed as an attempt to defame you.

[camlov2]

Originally Posted by asw37

This framed card and business card combo was purchased from a prestigious, well known auction.

wait... I am confused... is ebay the "prestigious, well known auction"?

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Texxxx

It needs a new mat on the back anyway because of the creases.

Which weren't there when it was sold a couple months back...

[GoldenAge50s]

This framed card and business card combo was purchased from a prestigious, well known auction.

It's amazingly simple! Give the auction facts to support your statement!

[CW]

let's see, we've got a card that has way too much red color in Mickey's face, borders that look way too thin, creasing that looks contrived, a surface with virtually no snow or scuff marks (but a LOT of creasing), and the corners are abnormally nice (ie. not consistent with the creasing).

Add in to all that, why in the hell would anyone frame a graded '52 Topps Mantle along with a cheap auto'ed card? It's all beyond me. (this doesn't even mention the irate, overly-defensive seller that bought it from a "prestigious, well known auction").

Why does this hobby have to suck so much?

I stand by everything in this post -- €hû¢k Wölƒƒ

p.s. nice detective work, Jeff!

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by CW

let's see, we've got a card that has way too much red color in Mickey's face, borders that look way too thin, creasing that looks contrived, a surface with virtually no snow or scuff marks (but a LOT of creasing), and the corners are abnormally nice (ie. not consistent with the creasing).

Add in to all that, why in the hell would anyone frame a graded '52 Topps Mantle along with a cheap auto'ed card? It's all beyond me. (this doesn't even mention the irate, overly-defensive seller that bought it from a "prestigious, well known auction").

Why does this hobby have to suck so much?

I stand by everything in this post -- €hû¢k Wölƒƒ

p.s. nice detective work, Jeff!

Chuck, I have to agree about the coloring.

http://home.comcast.net/~52mantle/52toppsmantlereal.htm

This card is a type A, and the hue and saturation are way off, in my opinion.

[bigwinnerx]

I wouldn't touch it with yours.

[asw37]

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[CW]

Seriously, those that know '52 Topps Mantles... you guys think this is real???

[ATP]

No, it is not. That photo is clear enough to see that the printing method is not correct on the card, among all the other things mentioned. Case closed.

[CW]

For the record, this is nothing personal against the current ebay seller. I don't think he is knowingly selling a fake card, just trying to resell an item for profit perhaps. I also think he may not be willing to face the fact that he bought a fake himself, which is understandable.

Still, it's not fair for someone else to be taken by this scam. It's just unfortunate all around.

[Sean1125]

Where did you get the better picture CW? I guess with that picture shown the pictures for this auction are taken at such an angle to deceive... I would like to hear the resolution to this when all is said and done (whether the card is real or fake and what happens to it).