Talk about an amazing ROI

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Really? I honestly didn't know that, which surprises me as a longtime collector of high end autos. Do you have a scan or photo of such an authentication?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAMES-BUSTER...item19d114f1f1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stunning-Bab...-/300863191480

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAMES-BUSTER...item19d114f1f1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stunning-Bab...-/300863191480

Wow, nice. Thanks for the links. The second one is clearly a TPA letter. The first one appears to be a witnessed signing? Not the same thing, but interesting nonetheless.

[cubsfan-budman]

its just what came up when i googled "jim stinson coa" and "richard simon coa"

[JimStinson]

In answer to the above regarding my COA, My bill of sale IS a COA on everything I sell as its sold with a lifetime guarantee of authenticity. I used to issue formal COA's on all of the private signings I did back in the 1980's and 1990's only to document and prove the fact that the item/items were signed in person.

When I buy collections I NEVER ask for COA's but many times I ask the seller to reference a bill of sale to find out initial origin.

I've never offered a formal authentication service because well ....there are only 24 hours in a day and I stay pretty busy as it is AND I never felt comfortable charging money for an OPINION which in most cases is no more difficult to do than telling you what time it is if I had a wristwatch and you didn't.

But in the course of redesigning my new web site which is still being worked on I was encouraged to offer a quick opinion link which I'll be incorporating into the site soon. Since I'll be working from scans its not designed to be the last word and won't be able identify photo copies or laser copies but I think where collectors might find it helpful is in weighing a Jim Stinson quick opinion PRIOR to a purchase. And avoid having to chase the seller after the fact or better still if certain TPA's of your choice are part of your collecting format it will help save money in that it will eliminate having to pay top dollar for an item that is going to come back as fake or secretarial anyway.

More on this later regarding specifics when all systems are go. In the meantime questions and suggestions are welcome.
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com
web site
stinsonsports.com

[1880nonsports]

I don't know you at all but I like the way you think. Wristwatch quote pretty good too..............

[Runscott]

Wayne, I didn't really understand the post where you quoted me - I sincerely hope you don't think I was questioning what you said. I actually agree with everything you've stated, and was just adding to it when I said that the "Non Big 2" could live with the results that their integrity has 'cost' them (although I don't really think it has cost them much).

I completely agree that the 2 largest TPA's exist in their less-than-desirable form due to marketing (and I would add customer 'greed' in some cases) and the fact that they provide a service that a lot of people believe is accurate, but that is desirable to some, even if it is not accurate.

I would not compare them to card-grading. They aren't grading the items, they are authenticating them. There is a huge difference. Card authentication should really be close to 100% success rate, while grades are somewhat subjective. Autograph authenticity should not be subjective. If a TPA 'thinks' an autograph is 'probably' authentic, but their certainty is less than say 99%, then their COA should say so. For instance, the ones that we have stated here are definitely bad (like the Sonny Liston Travis recently posted) - there is no way in hell that the TPA could have been even 50% certain on that one. They should say as much in their COA. For instance: "autograph exhibits characteristics consistent with known exemplars, but appears to be signed rather than drawn, and Liston is known to have drawn rather than signed."

Call me emotional, but if I'm collecting something and have a lot of money tied up in it, and key players in my hobby are demonstrating the level of professional skill demonstrated by JSA and PSA/DNA, then you are damned right I am going to be emotional. They either need to clean up their act or go work at McDonalds.

Edited to change 'Louis' to 'Liston' - my bad

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Wayne, I didn't really understand the post where you quoted me - I sincerely hope you don't think I was questioning what you said. I actually agree with everything you've stated, and was just adding to it when I said that the "Non Big 2" could live with the results that their integrity has 'cost' them (although I don't really think it has cost them much).

I completely agree that the 2 largest TPA's exist in their less-than-desirable form due to marketing (and I would add customer 'greed' in some cases) and the fact that they provide a service that a lot of people believe is accurate, but that is desirable to some, even if it is not accurate.

I would not compare them to card-grading. They aren't grading the items, they are authenticating them. There is a huge difference. Card authentication should really be close to 100% success rate, while grades are somewhat subjective. Autograph authenticity should not be subjective. If a TPA 'thinks' an autograph is 'probably' authentic, but their certainty is less than say 99%, then their COA should say so. For instance, the ones that we have stated here are definitely bad (like the Joe Louis Travis recently posted) - there is no way in hell that the TPA could have been even 50% certain on that one. They should say as much in their COA. For instance: "autograph exhibits characteristics consistent with known exemplars, but appears to be signed rather than drawn, and Louis is known to have drawn rather than signed."

Call me emotional, but if I'm collecting something and have a lot of money tied up in it, and key players in my hobby are demonstrating the level of professional skill demonstrated by JSA and PSA/DNA, then you are damned right I am going to be emotional. They either need to clean up their act or go work at McDonalds.

It's all good. My quoting of you contained responses pointed at others as well.

I only compare authenticators to graders in the sense that they provide a service that is marketable, meaning that in an massive marketplace like the Internet, they serve as a (ostensibly) disinterested third party to give opinions about merchandise, and these opinions stay with the item even as it changes ownership multiple times. That's all.

I also think that emotion is good, but the seemingly rising tide of incompetence displayed by these TPAs just really doesn't bother me that much. I don't send stuff to them. I won't buy anything with their sticker affixed, and I'm ready to trash certs or crack slabs if they fall away a la GAI. Short of that, I don't get all fired up about it. To some that apparently makes me a "supporter."

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

I don't know you at all but I like the way you think. Wristwatch quote pretty good too..............

Jim is a professional in the truest sense of the word, as opposed to someone who is paid to do something that they are not qualified to do.