Talk about an amazing ROI

dapro · #1 06-25-2013, 12:12 AM

So someone got a real thing for cheap and made $$$ or someone paid a lot for a fake. I am not too familiar with this item.

EDIT: Ok, I think I will answer my own question. The guy seems to buy it then got it authenticated at jsa and made bank. Good for him.

jimjim · #2 06-25-2013, 05:42 AM

I think in this case JSA was an unknowing conduit for allowing a fake autograph to officially enter the market. Kinda like money laundering. JSA didn't even know they were partaking in this little activity. Somebody should contact JSA and Huggins to let them know and hopefully they will take the item back and destroy it. Somebody just paid 3k for something that is most likely fake.

johnmh71 · #3 06-25-2013, 05:53 PM

It's like GAI. There are alot of autos out there that aren't Williams, Mantle, or DiMaggio which are real with their cert on them. You just need to be able to pick between the good and the bad.

Runscott · #4 06-25-2013, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmh71

It's like GAI. There are alot of autos out there that aren't Williams, Mantle, or DiMaggio which are real with their cert on them. You just need to be able to pick between the good and the bad.

No, it's not like GAI. GAI had it's problems, but it wasn't an operation that was set up to knowingly move fake autographs.

shelly · #5 06-25-2013, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

No, it's not like GAI. GAI had it's problems, but it wasn't an operation that was set up to knowingly move fake autographs.

Sorry, at the end that is exactly what they did.

Big Dave · #6 06-25-2013, 09:19 PM

As he stated, it wasn't set up for that, but in the end, someone's actions tainted a lot of good signatures merely because they have a GAI cert, not because they are not authentic.

johnmh71 · #7 06-25-2013, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave

As he stated, it wasn't set up for that, but in the end, someone's actions tainted a lot of good signatures merely because they have a GAI cert, not because they are not authentic.

I couldn't have put it any better myself.

Runscott · #8 06-25-2013, 10:46 PM

If you rely on TPA's, then you admittedly have a better chance of buying something real if you go with JSA or PSA/DNA, as opposed to GAI. Is someone showed me a GAI-authenticated item that I was interested in, I would look, since there is a chance it could be real. If they showed me a CC item, I would laugh. If they were serious, I would lose respect for them.

I'm not a TPA guy, so my viewpoint is probably different from most peoples' in this forum.

Runscott · #9 06-25-2013, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave

As he stated, it wasn't set up for that, but in the end, someone's actions tainted a lot of good signatures merely because they have a GAI cert, not because they are not authentic.

The good signatures are still good. If you spot a GAI autograph that you are certain is good, you should be able to get it cheaper because the GAI cert lessens the value.

You are unlikely to ever see a CC autograph that you will feel is good - that's the difference.

CW · #10 06-25-2013, 11:45 PM

I am wondering if the subject line of this topic could be slightly edited to say something like, "Very questionable Lloyd Waner" so the buyer would have a better chance of seeing this thread? Just a suggestion...

travrosty · #11 06-26-2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

No, it's not like GAI. GAI had it's problems, but it wasn't an operation that was set up to knowingly move fake autographs.

was cc set up to move fakes from the BEGINNING? if so why use spence. that is my observation.

Either it was a long time ago that they wanted to use spence and they didnt peddle fakes back then, or they did, but then why use spence? anyone?

Runscott · #12 06-26-2013, 01:54 PM

A quick google shows three additional copies of this card signed by Waner. Maybe they are all bogus?

jimjim · #13 06-27-2013, 10:23 AM

I received a reply from someone at Huggins and Scott that said they would look into it and take appropriate actions. I hope they reply to this thread to give an update, because actions speak louder than words.

It takes a lot more time and effort to do the right thing and refund the buyer the $3K and destroy this item then to just let a forged autograph enter the marketplace. If they don't do anything, I think somebody should contact a news outlet...

chaddurbin · #14 06-27-2013, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjim

I received a reply from someone at Huggins and Scott that said they would look into it and take appropriate actions. I hope they reply to this thread to give an update, because actions speak louder than words.

It takes a lot more time and effort to do the right thing and refund the buyer the $3K and destroy this item then to just let a forged autograph enter the marketplace. If they don't do anything, I think somebody should contact a news outlet...

don't worry, haulsofshame is ready with the breaking ~~news~~ noise i'm sure.

shelly · #15 06-27-2013, 10:50 AM

Why should a news outlet be told? This is what you are supposed to do. If they don't do it. Then you tell the news. This should have been taken care of the minute they heard of it.
"We are looking in to it ". What a bunch of crap. What do they need to look into a crystal ball.

Runscott · #16 06-27-2013, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelly

If they don't do it. Then you tell the news.

That's what he said.

This Waner is just another example of the state of this hobby - we rely on TPA's to do our thinking for us, assuming they have more skills than we do. First of all, they don't have the incentive we have to get it right - they can screw up and it's no big deal - very few repercussions, if any. Second, in many cases they actually do NOT have the skills that the prospective purchaser has - too many times we've seen examples of someone buying a forgery with a COA, then coming on this forum with it, already realizing that he's bought a forgery - you need to come to that realization before you buy the thing.

Enough people are still buying the COA rather than the autograph, to make it a profitable business to rush through authentications, attaching COA's to pure crap.

At some point I would like to see one of the respected auction houses like H&S say, "We are dropping xxxx - the quality of their authentication service does not fit well with the high quality product we are committed to delivering."

shelly · #17 06-27-2013, 11:47 AM

It will never happen. To many people have there money invested on the word of the big boys. If they get droped what do you think it would do to all the inventory that is out there. 1929

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