Unbelievable Marciano mess with certification-breaking story.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I wouldn't put all the blame on PSA and JSA regarding these letters. They also fooled plenty of well respected boxing guys for years.

The signatures are very convincing but the content, and known facts about the general behavior of Marciano give them away.

I know a couple of guys who sussed these out years ago.

Funny how they say, one of Marciano's brothers say "they may not be legit". His bro's are the last people I'd want authenticating his autograph.

That's all fine, but once they know they're wrong, why won't they admit they're wrong? at minimum, update your exemplars!

[shelly]

I never see them say I am sorry or we got it wrong. This is starting to be a habit with them

[jerseygary]

Being a TPA means never having to say "I'm sorry".

And did you catch the stupid oval JSA sticker affixed to the back that shows through one of the fake letterheads? What the hell is wrong with people!

[D. Bergin]

The auction house mentioned has sold at least 5 of these over the years, according to their own search engine..........without any help from the TPA's.

[slidekellyslide]

Rob Lifson is mentioned 4 times in that article and it has nothing to do with him.

[Mr. Zipper]

So the most recent letter gets pulled, which most reasonable people would say is a good thing if it is not authentic...

And how does HOS spin it?

"JSA is battling its own contradictory opinions..."

"JSA’s determination that the document was not actually signed by the boxing champ who hailed from Brockton, Massachusetts, is at odds with Spence’s own prior authentications..."

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And some wonder why any TPA is hesitant to publicly admit mistakes? If they do, the smear sites bash them over the head with it one way or another.

By the way Travis.... any update on the Jim Corbett ISP someone posted at the beginning of May? Is it real or not? You said at the time, "we are gonna look at it for awhile to give a qualified, informed opinion." With that big scan and that much handwriting, one would think it would be an easy call for an expert such as yourself.

Here is the link for your reference: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=corbett

[travrosty]

I think it's time for these companies to just stop doing boxing, i mean, what a mess, they are authenticating these items with no historical or timeline type of context at all.

its just stamp the coa and cash the checks. It's no one elses fault but these two companies. they did it, and now what a mess there is. there are going to be massive refund requests. 2000 per letter on the word of these two companies.

i mean just when are they going to get some boxing experts and quit shooting airballs?

REA stands behind spence, they choose to, but when it comes up snake eyes, they will have to either keep sticking with him or re-evaluate it. You can't take the praise on a huge success of an item and then duck the scorn when another item turns into a pumpkin at midnight. It's up to REA to use who they want. No one forced REA or any auction house to use JSA. When they use JSA and hand Spence a boxing piece, they have to ask themselves, "Am I handing this boxing autograph to the most knowledge boxing autograph resource in the hobby". If they can't answer yes, then why are they giving it to him? If they can answer that question with a yes , then i dont know what else i could show them or tell them to get them to wake up and smell the coffee.

http://blog.robertedwardauctions.com/?p=83

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

So the most recent letter gets pulled, which most reasonable people would say is a good thing if it is not authentic...

And how does HOS spin it?

"JSA is battling its own contradictory opinions..."

"JSA’s determination that the document was not actually signed by the boxing champ who hailed from Brockton, Massachusetts, is at odds with Spence’s own prior authentications..."

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And some wonder why any TPA is hesitant to publicly admit mistakes? If they do, the smear sites bash them over the head with it one way or another.

By the way Travis.... any update on the Jim Corbett ISP someone posted at the beginning of May? Is it real or not? You said at the time, "we are gonna look at it for awhile to give a qualified, informed opinion." With that big scan and that much handwriting, one would think it would be an easy call for an expert such as yourself.

Here is the link for your reference: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=corbett

Mr. Zipper, it looks like Mr. Stinson took care of it.

Amazing that Travis was able to explain why that putrid Mantle autograph is a forgery, but Travis, the self-proclaimed boxing expert, after a month, still isn't able to opine on the Corbett.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

So the most recent letter gets pulled, which most reasonable people would say is a good thing if it is not authentic...

And how does HOS spin it?

"JSA is battling its own contradictory opinions..."

"JSA’s determination that the document was not actually signed by the boxing champ who hailed from Brockton, Massachusetts, is at odds with Spence’s own prior authentications..."

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And some wonder why any TPA is hesitant to publicly admit mistakes? If they do, the smear sites bash them over the head with it one way or another.

By the way Travis.... any update on the Jim Corbett ISP someone posted at the beginning of May? Is it real or not? You said at the time, "we are gonna look at it for awhile to give a qualified, informed opinion." With that big scan and that much handwriting, one would think it would be an easy call for an expert such as yourself.

Here is the link for your reference: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=corbett

I am glad you are giving me deadlines on how and when to authenticate for free? nice. I'd be happy to do the same in return if someone has a space item.

by the way, jsa called them secretarial, and they they aren't, so maybe they need to square a few things away. psa and jsa require it in hand and a 150 dollar fee, so i won't bow down to your demands to authenticate anything in a certain time frame that YOU choose, okay? Rushing into things is what gets people into this mess, i.e. marciano, just ask jsa and psa.

This is one of the biggest autograph hoaxes ever in boxing, and someone's corbett is your concern? If these marciano's were ACE or STAT, it would be a 45 page thread, now it's no big deal i suppose?

Where is the full disclosure that you work for JSA? why do you not disclose that when it is time to stick up for them. They blew it and now you won't put on your JSA badge, why not?

To JSA, the Marciano letters are NOT secretarial, they are made out of whole cloth. JSA still couldnt get it right. No secretary for marciano is going to sign the exact same autograph, the EXACT same, for 10 years, and just sign that secretarial autograph to one man, Reinmuth, and no one else that Rocky ever writes to? and on stationary that never pops up anywhere else except to this one guy? It's not secretarial. He didn't have anyone else sign for him, except his wife signed a few and his brother, but we know what their handwriting looks like and this was intentional to deceive by making very deliberate signature that look the same over ten years, he didn't have a secretary signing his name.

I would like to see jsa's reasoning and proof on how these are secretarial. Maybe JSA can't get it right, but bash me please on being careful and not jumping the gun and handing out opinions willy nilly like two companies I know.

It's not a smear site to show their total ineptitude. They never admit anything because that's all they would be doing. And we wouldn't want companies doing the right thing and admitting when they don't know what they are doing. If they had the info earlier, why didn't they help the consumer and help stop these at auction.

ANSWER:Because they don't care one whit about anyone but themselves. That's why helping them isn't a solution for anything, only a complete revamp from bottom to top, top to bottom will help anyone. They need total house cleaning and as long as the same two or three guys are in charge, nothing will happen to make it any better.

Look, they still have up the bad fitzsimmons on autographs facts over at psa. WHY? they know it's bad. It's because they don't care about anyone but themselves, that's why. Man up psa, and jsa.

[sago]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Rob Lifson is mentioned 4 times in that article and it has nothing to do with him.

I would have guessed more.

[toybulldog]

Compliments of the boxing guys if it will help alleviate the silly Jim Corbett issue:



I'd rather try to find out who is behind yet another elaborate hoax involving Rocky Marciano. Sports Quest publication with a Columbia University address? Who, what, where, when and how?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

The auction house mentioned has sold at least 5 of these over the years, according to their own search engine..........without any help from the TPA's.

Who, Leland's?

[travrosty]

I wish these were space autographs that we were talking about over and over and over again, mr. zarelli would be singing such a different tune!