The T206 Titus Bubble

[CMIZ5290]

Yes, there is at least one collector who is known to hoard Titus T206's. Having said that, the card is still a tough common with a very low PSA Population, especially in grades 6 and higher. Thus, the value.....In lower grades, it is not that difficult of a card to obtain.

[CTrux]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm a little confused though. You said that he hoards Titus cards and that the card is already scarce. But, then you said that obtaining a low grade isn't difficult.

Is he only collecting high grade cards? And, aside from the fact that T206 Titus wallpaper would be amazing, any idea why?

[seablaster]

I'm just curious as to why you would consider the destruction of the Titus hoard as unethical.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by seablaster

I'm just curious as to why you would consider the destruction of the Titus hoard as unethical.

+1 Mean, (to garden variety collectors) but unethical?

[CTrux]

Originally Posted by seablaster

I'm just curious as to why you would consider the destruction of the Titus hoard as unethical.

Really? Well... I'd direct you towards an ethicist and/or a historian/art historian. Professionally, I'm neither. (However, from what I know of Plato, Aristotle, Kant, and John Stewart Mill, et al., I'm confident that they'd likely think that preserving the cards is the most ethical thing to do).

In my own opinion, I consider it unethical because the cards are part of our collective heritage, both as collectors and as Americans in general. Destroying the cards deprives many, many, many other people from enjoying them and encourages other people to similarly destroy other cards. (Imagine if there were no Mantles to collect). Meanwhile, only greed is served and, in the long term, we would risk losing the hobby in general if/when others decide to hoard and destroy.

So, I think the cards should be preserved and the price left to natural market forces.

[rdwyer]

Seems to me, it would be better to hoard them. Then when prices go up, sell them.

[seablaster]

Originally Posted by CTrux

Really? Well... I'd direct you towards an ethicist and/or a historian/art historian. Professionally, I'm neither. (However, from what I know of Plato, Aristotle, Kant, and John Stewart Mill, et al., I'm confident that they'd likely think that preserving the cards is the most ethical thing to do).

In my own opinion, I consider it unethical because the cards are part of our collective heritage, both as collectors and as Americans in general. Destroying the cards deprives many, many, many other people from enjoying them and encourages other people to similarly destroy other cards. (Imagine if there were no Mantles to collect). Meanwhile, only greed is served and, in the long term, we would risk losing the hobby in general if/when others decide to hoard and destroy.

So, I think the cards should be preserved and the price left to natural market forces.

I appreciate your response.

I agree that these cards represent an aspect of the history of baseball and of America in general; part of me even felt conflicted throwing out 1989 Topps cards.

That being said, these Titus cards are the property of the buyer and I feel they are within their right to destroy them if they wanted to. Would it be unfortunate? Definitely. Would other collectors be angry if they were destroyed? Absolutely...but I don't think it's unethical.

I think the market manipulation accompanied by hoarding is an interesting one. The hoarder puts himself in difficult situation; the more they acquire, the competition will become more significant, and prices paid will move upward accordingly. Case in point, the Obak Miller.

I don't think destroying them would realize the most gain for the hoarder. I think the only way it could be done is as already suggested. Hoard them and then slowly bleed them out into the marketplace while perceived scarity and demand continue to make them valuable.

[CTrux]

Originally Posted by seablaster

I appreciate your response.

I agree that these cards represent an aspect of the history of baseball and of America in general; part of me even felt conflicted throwing out 1989 Topps cards.

That being said, these Titus cards are the property of the buyer and I feel they are within their right to destroy them if they wanted to. Would it be unfortunate? Definitely. Would other collectors be angry if they were destroyed? Absolutely...but I don't think it's unethical.

I think the market manipulation accompanied by hoarding is an interesting one. The hoarder puts himself in difficult situation; the more they acquire, the competition will become more significant, and prices paid will move upward accordingly. Case in point, the Obak Miller.

I don't think destroying them would realize the most gain for the hoarder. I think the only way it could be done is as already suggested. Hoard them and then slowly bleed them out into the marketplace while perceived scarity and demand continue to make them valuable.

Oh, 1989 Topps! We must be the same age. I loved those cards. Sadly, they were--as you know--massively over produced. As a result, I can't see any ethical issue with trashing them. Just sentimental, maybe...

I'm glad that you noted the property rights issue. That's also interesting. However, I'm of the inclination that property rights should--at some point-- succumb to historical value, at least for some items. I hold the T206 set in high regard. I want my kids' kids to see and enjoy them (in person, not in a museum). So, the historical value is--for me--high enough to check my personal property right to destroy them. For me, what provides that "check" is ethics.

Regarding the buying-and-selling vs. buying-and-destroying, from a market perspective I have to admit that it would be really interesting to see what would be more profitable. If the hoarder could get a following/story/myth going about the Titus card, it would be very interesting to see how far up the T206 rarity list he/she could drive the card.

[SetBuilder]

I spend a lot of my time reading philosophy so I thought I'd chime in here. I've been wanting a Titus card for my set since I started collecting a year ago but I've given up the hunt for now. I'll buy it as part of a larger lot but I don't feel like paying the premium for it knowing what I know about this particular card.

Here we have an unnamed hoarder who has a huge fetish for the Titus 'stache (you can take this literally or figuratively); is trying to realize a profit by driving up prices (i.e. cornering the market), or is trying to stroke his ego by controlling the supply. I don't believe that merely "liking" a card is enough of a motivation to hoard it compulsively, especially when he is in possession of hundreds of copies of the same card.

Ethics teaches us what conduct is to be valued, and what conduct is detrimental, to society as a whole. One test I like to use to determine if a character trait is ethical (or virtuous) is to ask "what would happen if everyone acted in this way?" That is, what would happen if a great number of people began to hoard valuable items compulsively? The world would not be a happy place, I would imagine. This is why vices are toxic to mankind, because if hedonism is valued over everything else, we have chaos.

I do not believe this conduct is acceptable. If you want a profit bad enough, produce something instead of mooching.

[tiger8mush]

Trimming a T206 Wagner, grading it as factory-cut = unethical
Selling cards on the b/s/t with creases but saying your loupe showed a perfect card = unethical
Creating a T206 website pimping fake T206s that you created and selling them = unethical
this link below = unethical
http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=86171

destroying your own t206s = whatever