Fair shake; calling out Kirk Keith

[vintagetoppsguy]

I think other than Joey and Kirk, I know more about this situation than anybody else on this board, so maybe I can shed some light on this. Joey has done some shady things. There is no doubt about that and he even admits it. But who here or anywhere else can say that Joey scammed them out of money? I’m not talking about a couple of bucks for return shipping or something like that – I am talking about serious money. Who here has lost money to Joey Farino? Anyone? No? Not one? I didn’t think so.

Joey may not be the kind of person you want to do business with and I don’t blame you for that. But he has never scammed anybody out of any money. Period! On the other hand, I have seen Kirk follow Joey around to at least 4 different message boards (including this one) and constantly make wild accusations that he can’t back up and stalk the guy. If Kirk could back up his accusations, he would have commented by now. It’s like he’s obsessed with Joey and won’t leave him alone. Come on, he texts the guy just to stalk him. How screwed up in the head is that? I told Joey to retain an attorney and take him to court and I hope he follows my advice.

This is not the first time Kirk has been accused of doing something like this. Below is a thread on CU from less than a month ago that Kirk started about Joey, and another CU member named Danny spoke up and accused Kirk of the same thing (harassment). How did Kirk respond? Well, he didn’t. Crickets! Just like this thread. Just read post #8 in the thread below. That should tell you a lot about Kirk’s character.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...81&STARTPAGE=1

Edited for spelling

[mcadams]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think other than Joey and Kirk, I know more about this situation than anybody else on this board, so maybe I can shed some light on this. Joey has done some shady things. There is no doubt about that and he even admits it. But who here or anywhere else can say that Joey scammed them out of money? I’m not talking about a couple of bucks for return shipping or something like that – I am talking about serious money. Who here has lost money to Joey Farino? Anyone? No? Not one? I didn’t think so.

Joey may not be the kind of person you want to do business with and I don’t blame you for that. But he has never scammed anybody out of any money. Period! On the other hand, I have seen Kirk follow Joey around to at least 4 different message boards (including this one) and constantly make wild accusations that he can’t back up and stalk the guy. If Kirk could back up his accusations, he would have commented by now. It’s like he’s obsessed with Joey and won’t leave him alone. Come on, he texts the guy just to stalk him. How screwed up in the head is that? I told Joey to retain an attorney and take him to court and I hope he follows my advice.

This is not the first time Kirk has been accused of doing something like this. Below is a thread on CU from less than a month ago that Kirk started about Joey, and another CU member named Danny spoke up and accused Kirk of the same thing (harassment). How did Kirk respond? Well, he didn’t. Crickets! Just like this thread. Just read post #8 in the thread below. That should tell you a lot about Kirk’s character.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...81&STARTPAGE=1

Edited for spelling

David- We don't know each other, but I've read plenty of your posts here over the years. I was very surprised to read your comments above where you practically turn the situation around, as if Kirk is the bad guy.

Joey has admitted that he frequently sells cards on ebay and then back outs of the transaction. Even worse, he's also admitted that he wins auctions on ebay and doesn't pay. People are now aware of Joey's BS, and so now Joey creates new usernames every few weeks/months so that people don't know who he is.

Kirk proactively lets people know when he's identified Joey posing under a new alias on Ebay or on CU BST, so that people can avoid him. But you have the gall to insinuate that Kirk is somehow the bad guy here? That's not harassment, that is Kirk protecting his friends on CU from getting into a transaction with a known scam artist. People like Kirk are good for the hobby, not vice versa.

I realize Joey is likely not happy about the fact that Kirk frequently alerts people to Joey's new aliases. For example, when Joey came to CU under the alias YankeesFan74 and tried to sell his now infamous T206 Ty Cobb Red Portrait 3 weeks ago, it was Kirk that let several people there know that YankeesFan74 was really Joey. Good for Kirk.... because we all know that Joey just takes payment for the Cobb card, he never actually mails it to anyone after they've paid.

If I were Kirk, I wouldn't reply to this thread either. Everyone at CU already knows his character and appreciates what he does for the hobby. No need to answer to "call-outs" from people who change their name every few weeks.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by mcadams

David- We don't know each other, but I've read plenty of your posts here over the years. I was very surprised to read your comments above where you practically turn the situation around, as if Kirk is the bad guy.

Joey has admitted that he frequently sells cards on ebay and then back outs of the transaction. Even worse, he's also admitted that he wins auctions on ebay and doesn't pay. People are now aware of Joey's BS, and so now Joey creates new usernames every few weeks/months so that people don't know who he is.

Kirk proactively lets people know when he's identified Joey posing under a new alias on Ebay or on CU BST, so that people can avoid him. But you have the gall to insinuate that Kirk is somehow the bad guy here? That's not harassment, that is Kirk protecting his friends on CU from getting into a transaction with a known scam artist. People like Kirk are good for the hobby, not vice versa.

I realize Joey is likely not happy about the fact that Kirk frequently alerts people to Joey's new aliases. For example, when Joey came to CU under the alias YankeesFan74 and tried to sell his now infamous T206 Ty Cobb Red Portrait 3 weeks ago, it was Kirk that let several people there know that YankeesFan74 was really Joey. Good for Kirk.... because we all know that Joey just takes payment for the Cobb card, he never actually mails it to anyone after they've paid.

If I were Kirk, I wouldn't reply to this thread either. Everyone at CU already knows his character and appreciates what he does for the hobby. No need to answer to "call-outs" from people who change their name every few weeks.

Michael,

Joey did all those things. He's not denying that. So simply don't do business with him. But he never scammed anybody out of money as Kirk (and now you) has stated.

You're trying to make Kirk out as some crusader. He's not. Anybody that sends texts to another to harrass them is a cyber stalker. It's that simple and it's against the law.

Just one question for you? Why did Kirk do the same thing to Danny? What did Danny do to deserve it? Once again, that says a lot about Kirk's character.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If in fact Joey is "borrowing" money from people under the false pretenses of selling them a nonexistent card that is pretty close to scamming them in my book.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think other than Joey and Kirk, I know more about this situation than anybody else on this board, so maybe I can shed some light on this. Joey has done some shady things. There is no doubt about that and he even admits it. But who here or anywhere else can say that Joey scammed them out of money? I’m not talking about a couple of bucks for return shipping or something like that – I am talking about serious money. Who here has lost money to Joey Farino? Anyone? No? Not one? I didn’t think so.


Edited for spelling

No, he just borrows their money for a while pretending to sell them a card he either does or does not have.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

No, he just borrows their money for a while pretending to sell them a card he either does or does not have.

Yup and that's wrong. Nobody has denied that. How long can you beat a dead horse? Isn't cyber stalking wrong too though?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yup and that's wrong. Nobody has denied that. How long can you beat a dead horse? Isn't cyber stalking wrong too though?

The horse hasn't been dead that long...this activity was taking place only a month ago. Don't come on our board complaining about cyber stalking and that your transgressions are all in the past and apologized for when the past is only a few weeks ago.

If Joey is going to take Kurt to court then just do it. His past makes him a huge target here, and when his past is only a month ago it's fair game to beat that "dead horse".

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

The horse hasn't been dead that long...this activity was taking place only a month ago. Don't come on our board complaining about cyber stalking and that your transgressions are all in the past and apologized for when the past is only a few weeks ago.

If Joey is going to take Kurt to court then just do it. His past makes him a huge target here, and when his past is only a month ago it's fair game to beat that "dead horse".

Joey's activity is unethical. Nobody is denying that and I'm not making excuses for it. However, Keith's is criminal. There is a huge difference between the two.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Joey's activity is unethical. Nobody is denying that and I'm not making excuses for it. However, Keith's is criminal. There is a huge difference between the two.

I know nothing of Kirk Keith, but it's hard for me to have any sympathy for Joey Farino with all the unethical activity. I don't read the CU boards so I'm not involved in any of this and the only time I even recall Joey Farino's name was when he had his dust up with Dan McKee. Joey is the one who brought the CU drama onto Net54, he is my only concern here.

[btkpath]

I guess one of the issues here that I am having a hard time getting my head around is how Joey feels completely absolved of any wrong doing because he has returned all moneys to those who thought they were purchasing cards.

I would submit that a "sale" is premised on a buyer viewing more value (or importance, etc.) in a piece of merchandise than the "value" of the money it took to purchase the merchandise. By returning the money, a seller is, in fact returning to the buyer something that the buyer considers to be of lesser value.

To view the merchandise, and the money needed to purchase the merchandise, as equivalent, may be a reasonable solution to a seller, but could certainly make a buyer feel inadequately compensated and resentful.

Joey, I am sorry that you feel like you need to exonerate yourself and clear your name on this board due to interactions that you have had with Kirk (whoever that might be) in the past, but it seems to me that if you spent half the time "cleaning up" your side of the business that you DO have control of, you might not have as many issues down the road.

Just my $0.02.

[JoeyF1981]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

The horse hasn't been dead that long...this activity was taking place only a month ago. Don't come on our board complaining about cyber stalking and that your transgressions are all in the past and apologized for when the past is only a few weeks ago.

If Joey is going to take Kurt to court then just do it. His past makes him a huge target here, and when his past is only a month ago it's fair game to beat that "dead horse".

Just so you know Ive sold hundreds of cards and delivered every single one of those cards with the exception of the T206 Ty cobb psa 2. For some reason that was one card I kept changing my mind about. I had 100% feedback on ebay until I had a issue with the T206 cobb. Ive sold many cards to people on this forum and the psa forum. I have never taken anyones money or ripped anyone off. Was not honoring the deal for the Cobb wrong? Yes definitely. I take full blame for that. Did I lie to Dan Mckee 2 yrs ago to return the babe ruth card I bought from him? Yes. I have already spoken to Dan and we're square.