Were they the best......

[Cardboard Junkie]

All the players listed...suck.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

All the players listed...suck.

Im assuming youre joking here. How can anyone not love Ripken or Jeter?

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Im assuming youre joking here. How can anyone not love Ripken or Jeter?

Yes, in a way I'm joking...but seriously Ripken and Jeter couldn't collectively have carried Cobb's Jock strap.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Yes, in a way I'm joking...but seriously Ripken and Jeter couldn't collectively have carried Cobb's Jock strap.

Agreed, but we are comparing them to the players , they played with, not of any before 1980

[Peter_Spaeth]

How can anyone seriously say Bonds was not one of the best of his time?

[HRBAKER]

I didn't say that, he was.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How can anyone seriously say Bonds was not one of the best of his time?

Because of performance enhancing drugs?

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Because of performance enhancing drugs?

Obviously I can't ignore his steroid use. I only look at his pre 1999 numbers as legitimate. The story goes after 1998 when he saw all the attention that McGwire and Sosa got, he told other players that he was going to try it. I don't know exactly the words used but that's the basic message he said from what I heard and from 1999 on he was juiced up.....as much or more than anyone else!

Even so, when only comparing him to others of his time, his pre 1999 numbers are still fantastic in their own right, just not top 5 player immortal all time numbers!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Because of performance enhancing drugs?

Yeah before drugs he was just a three time MVP winner, perennial all star and Gold Glove winner, and probably the best all around player in the game. Next?

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How can anyone seriously say Bonds was not one of the best of his time?

Glad you asked.

He was a druggie.
Hope this helps.

Next ...

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Yes, in a way I'm joking...but seriously Ripken and Jeter couldn't collectively have carried Cobb's Jock strap.

Completely different era. While Cobb is top 5 ever, I don't think he would've been as successful in today's game.

Jeter and Ripken were/are some of the best.

[EvilKing00]

okok, I think we have a decent sample size for the main point.

Take a look at some of these life time numbers, (some are of players we didnt vote on some are some that we did) I find the vote very interesting.

– 509 HR, .292 BA, 253 SB, .393 OBP

– 431 HR, .276 BA, .340 OBP

– 255 HR, 313 BA, 348 SB, .382 OBP

– 234 HR, .306 BA, 504 SB, .369 OBP

– 363 HR, .296 BA, .409 OBP

[z28jd]

I think when you pick out great players and only compare them to their era, then the answer is pretty obvious that they were among the best. Since you didn't say top ten or any number, then the answer is subjective. I don't think Jeter was one of the top ten of his era, but I would still call him one of the best of the era. Without more qualifiers, the results are flawed.

Sheffield would be low end for this group, but I still think he was a great player at times. Amazing bat speed, coaching 3B with him up should have got someone hazard pay. Larry Bowa used to stand about 20 feet further back with him up

[Shoele$$]

Ripken and Jeter are class acts and deserve all the praise they receive......don't have much good to say about the other 3 doucebags you have listed. Barry Bonds was one the first guys to also get heavily into steroids around the mid 90's. I think he's a complete joke with the majority of his stats being inflated by the juice. He deserves NEVER to be voted into the hall of fame.

[tcdyess]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

All the players listed...suck.

come on.... seriously? Ripken and Jeter are what baseball should be about and have carried the torch from icons past.....

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

All the players listed...suck.

Are you current with baseball or too stuck in pre-war?

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Are you current with baseball or too stuck in pre-war?

I would say stuck in prewar.....if we're talking Vietnam.

This may sound very strange to most here but I like baseball cards a lot more than I like baseball. Lost interest in the game when I discovered "hippie" life. Never lost interest in the cards though.

Last baseball game I went to was Denny Mclain winning 31 in 1968.
Last Hockey game was at Olympia waaaay before even goalies wore masks and helmets were unheard of. 1964.
Last football game was the lions when they played at Briggs Stadium 1959.
Last Basketball game was the Pistons when they played at Cobo Hall (Can't remember the year).
Last super concert... Hendrix at Flint IMA (Front row center).

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I would say stuck in prewar.....if we're talking Vietnam.

This may sound very strange to most here but I like baseball cards a lot more than I like baseball. Lost interest in the game when I discovered "hippie" life. Never lost interest in the cards though.

Last baseball game I went to was Denny Mclain winning 31 in 1968.
Last Hockey game was at Olympia waaaay before even goalies wore masks and helmets were unheard of. 1964.
Last football game was the lions when they played at Briggs Stadium 1959.
Last Basketball game was the Pistons when they played at Cobo Hall (Can't remember the year).
Last super concert... Hendrix at Flint IMA (Front row center).

I too am into my cards more than the game. I'll bet Hendrix was amazing.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

This may sound very strange to most here but I like baseball cards a lot more than I like baseball. Lost interest in the game when I discovered "hippie" life. Never lost interest in the cards though.

Can't name 5 players today. Don't care. I can't stand current MLB but will watch it every now and then if my wife is watching it. I love collecting Pre-War cards and love the hobby though. There are a few of us but probably less than 1/2 of 1 percent. And for me it wasn't hippie stuff that got me less interested it was the strike and the high costs of going to a game. Add that to the fact that a lot of the MLB players are D-bags and there you have it. I still love to play softball and love the game in general. Bring on the minor leagues, now those games I love going to ....

[Peter_Spaeth]

9 votes against Jeter?

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

9 votes against Jeter?

All Boston fans

Makes me wonder how much the votes are skewed upon regional preferences.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Paul S

All Boston fans

Makes me wonder how much the votes are skewed upon regional preferences.

im not a boston fan.

I think ruth is the best player ever, Joe d and the mick are top 7 players ever, arod is one of the best hitters I have ever seen and Donnie Baseball is top 3 1st base men fielders ever.

Jeter just isnt one of the best players of his time IMO

[steve B]

I voted against all but Clemens.

Bonds was great, but I don't think "best of his time" I've never considered MVP to be any sort of reliable indicator, too many times it's given to a very good player on a very good team. Usually teams that would have been good without them. (Or in Arods case, probably better despite the flashy stats)
Of the three pre steroid MVPs for bonds one was a mediocre season among a sea of mediocre seasons. The other one in Pittsburg benefitted from the team being good. The only one of the three that was really great was the last pre steroid one in 93.

Sheffield? I just don't see it. back off a bit on the power late in his career, he's a 450HR guy with a decent average. Maybe not implicated in steroids, I haven't really kept track. But the attacking the bullpen help over a towel is in the roid rage category. There's plenty of guys with similar power and a bit less average, so no Not best of his time, and the good average combined with playing a bit in NY is I think the only thing that gets him into the HOF.
http://voices.yahoo.com/you-re-out-h...n-8328547.html

Heck, I'd take some of those guys over Sheffield every time.

I had a tough time with the other three.
Jeter is I think borderline. If you count his entire career, maybe . But there have been stretches where he wasn't even the best shortstop. Among the best for sure, and he has outlasted Nomar, Tejada, and made Arod move. That's got to count for something. I'm a Boston guy, so maybe I'm biased because of the NY hype "best yankee ever"? Really!? Top 10, but not best.

Clemens I voted for. Maybe shouldn't have. He was amazing to watch, and a very intense competitor. Especially from 86-96 The last four years in Boston he -I think unfairly-took a lot of the heat for a pretty bad team. Yeah, they won the division in 95 but with only 86 wins. He did just fine for Toronto after leaving. A few points off for "it's not about the money" then going with the money. I really liked what he was trying towards the end of his career, I think at some point in the future we'll see more aging players being brought in part-time for a contending team that needs either a good clubhouse presence or just a guy who can win a few down the stretch because he might have 10 game sor so in him but not a full season. (And I know hardly anyone else liked the idea)

As much as I like Ripken I just couldn't count him as Best. And that's always tougher for someone who stayed around so long. Look at the list of guys you'd have to compare him to. Ozzie Smith, Jeter, Arod, Nomar, Tejada, Jay Bell, and probably 10 others. That he led the league in assists at short so many times and doing it by being in the right spot rather than pure quickness is amazing. But it also would depend on having the right sorts of pitcher, If the outfield gets more chances, the infielders might not seem all that good statistically.

Picking a best of any player over a career stretch is challenging because of overlap, changing outlook by management, and loads of other stuff. I prefer to look at stretches of 5-10 years. I think all the players listed were probably the best at their position over some random 5 year stretch. And like it or not if I'm thinking of it as who would I rather have on a team if I owned it Then the value of positive PR enters the equation. Bonds and Shefield No, Clemens, Jeter Maybe. Ripken yes. ( Although I'd make exceptions, I really wanted to see Kingman for a full season in Fenway. We wouldn't even be discussing the steroid guys single season numbers.)

Steve B