1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth sells for more than the T206 Wagner

[Zone91]

The 52 Topps Mantle is like Detective comics # 27 the 1st appearance of Batman and the Babe Ruth is like Action comics # 1 the 1st appearance of Superman people will never forget those like they will never forget these 2 baseball players.

There is NO way Barry Bonds with 762 homers will EVER be collected like Ruth or Mantle same goes for Hank Aaron....much less people talk about Aaron than Mantle even if Aaron was a much better player...that is why true legends will always be popular and collected.

Post # 5

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Zone91

The 52 Topps Mantle is like Detective comics # 27 the 1st appearance of Batman and the Babe Ruth is like Action comics # 1 the 1st appearance of Superman people will never forget those like they will never forget these 2 baseball players.

There is NO way Barry Bonds with 762 homers will EVER be collected like Ruth or Mantle same goes for Hank Aaron....much less people talk about Aaron than Mantle even if Aaron was a much better player...that is why true legends will always be popular and collected.

Post # 5

While some of that is true, the reason is a bit off in my opinion.

Ruth is by far the best hitter of his era, and barring injury from overwork (which was likely at the time) would probably have been one of the best pitchers. There aren't many players witht that sort of all around combination.

Mantle was certainly among the best of his era, but not a clear #1. Yes, he fought off a bunch of injuries, but so have other players who aren't regarded as highly. I think a lot of the Mantle thing is that he played in New York, through an era when the other two NY teams lost some fan base and moved west. Mays would probably be thought of the same way had the Giants stayed in NY.

Aaron was a generally quiet guy playing for a team in a far less media intensive market. And while he didn't put up insanely flashy numbers in any one season (For the era) He did perform at a very high level for a long time. 17 straight years in the top 10 in the league for HR. Some of what he accomplished won't happen again anytime soon. More players are either driven out because they become too expensive, or simply leave because they have enough money and aren't willing to play through a few years of chronic injury. Or a combination of both.

I'd have to agree about Bonds though. He was a great player, but was far too abrasive compared to players during the same time. I think he might have broken the career HR record without steroids, just a year or two later (Or three depending on how he aged) But a bad attitude in a small media market just doesn't lead anywhere good.

Steve B

[Zone91]

steve B

Same could be said if Adolf Hitler came from Canada....but history is history and he did not so everyone remembers him as the # 1 villain of humankind.

No one can change the past...Aaron lucked out in fame versus Mantle just the way things went down.

Post # 9

[Zone91]

It is like the great artist in painting no modern day painter will be as popular as the greats from the past just will not happen EVEN if most today paint better!!! Who in his right mind would pay 100$ million dollars for a modern day painting (and for me same goes for any old painting but people do pay that kind of money why because they are Legends in their field).

Post # 10

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Zone91

It is like the great artist in painting no modern day painter will be as popular as the greats from the past just will not happen EVEN if most today paint better!!! Who in his right mind would pay 100$ million dollars for a modern day painting (and for me same goes for any old painting but people do why because they are Legends in their field).

Post # 10

Oh, those modern paintings can go for quite a bit of money. I don't know about $100mn, but $50mn, yes.

[Zone91]

cyseymour

My point was that the great artists from the past will always be remembered no matter what and there paintings will always command high prices even if they where painted over 400 years ago.

Babe Ruth has been dead for 3 generations now and people still love the guy and collect him as for Mantle it has been only 1 generation since he has died.

Baseball is just to important in America for people to forget the true legends of the game!! Hockey yes people forget about the truly old players (from the early 1900's) but not baseball.

Plus people in the U.S are probably one of the countries who care more about their history than any other nation on Earth so people will remember....way to many books/movies exist about U.S history for people to just forget.

Post # 11

[steve B]

Hmm....Lots of stuff to consider.

CySeymour - we've had a slow art conversation in the off topic section. While looking some stuff up I was amazed that something like 9 of the top 10 auction sale prices were for art from the 1900's. And most of that from the last half of the century.

Andrew- My point was that publicity has as much to do with how a player becomes an iconic character. Without publicity of their exploits it either never happens, or doesn't get to the same stature. Mantle is obviosly an iconc figure, but if it had been the Yankees moving to SF, I don't think he would be. (And I'll counter your Canadian Hitler with a western Pol Pot or a less secretive Stalin, or even an Andrew Jackson going agianst a larger population. ) Look at a couple modern players - Ken Griffey Jr. - some hype early, some injury issues, and eventually a great 22 years that put him over 600HR. But nearly the entire last half of his career was pretty quiet on the PR front. Jim Thome - another 22 years, also over 600 HR and not even a hint of steroids. His entire career played in small larket places, and he's not a flashy guy. If you can call 7th all time in hr not flashy.
Reggie Jacksons 5 years in NY were ones of amazing celebrity, but weren't really that impressive.
When you think late 70's power hitters, who do you think of first? Jackson or Rice? Jackson or Hisle? (Hisle had more HR and more RBI in both 77 and 78 before injury finished him.) Jackson or Gorman Thomas? Jackson or really any of the players who had 18 better HR seasons between 77 and 79?
Publicity has a LOT to do with it.

On the card front, I wonder how much the 52 Mantle affected his iconic image? I don't think either would be quite the same without the other.

For that matter, how much does a "great" card affect any player? Baltimore news wasn't a big deal till recently, but would Ruth be as famous without the Goudeys? Would Wagner be as famous without the T206, or if it wasn't an uncommon card? That maybe belongs in another thread, as it's getting a bit off topic.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Zone91

The 52 Topps Mantle is like Detective comics # 27 the 1st appearance of Batman and the Babe Ruth is like Action comics # 1 the 1st appearance of Superman people will never forget those like they will never forget these 2 baseball players.

There is NO way Barry Bonds with 762 homers will EVER be collected like Ruth or Mantle same goes for Hank Aaron....much less people talk about Aaron than Mantle even if Aaron was a much better player...that is why true legends will always be popular and collected.

Post # 5

??? How is the second card of Mantle the same as the first issue of Superman or Batman?

I don't know if Mantle prices will drop as people who remember him die off, but he's certainly no Babe Ruth, Gehrig or DiMaggio.

A lot of young guys forget that in the '80s baseball cards became fairly worthless compared to what they had been. Same thing happened to comic books in the '70s. So what if Rose was the hit leader and Bonds was the HR leader - neither has a card from the '50s or earlier.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Runscott

??? How is the second card of Mantle the same as the first issue of Superman or Batman?

I don't know if Mantle prices will drop as people who remember him die off, but he's certainly no Babe Ruth, Gehrig or DiMaggio.

A lot of young guys forget that in the '80s baseball cards became fairly worthless compared to what they had been. Same thing happened to comic books in the '70s. So what if Rose was the hit leader and Bonds was the HR leader - neither has a card from the '50s or earlier.

I would certainly put Mantle at the same level as all four of those players from both a numbers standpoint and mystique standpoint (for lack of a better word). The fact that the 1952 Topps card is not his first card means nothing. In actuality it is his 5th or 6th card issued, but I would still consider it his rookie (but that would be a post-war discussion). I don't know anything about comics, but I'm sure whatever analogy Adrian made has some sort of baring.

The 1952 Topps Mantle card will never go down in value relative to the hobby, same as the BN Ruth and t206 Wagner.

I would personally consider the BN Ruth to be the most valuable card in the world right now. I would consider the PSA 8 Wagner to be the most valuable single card in the world and I would certainly consider the PSA 10 Mantles to be up there as well.. $1-1.5 million if I had to guess.

The 1952 Topps Mantle has much more value past the fan appeal. It is arguably the most iconic image in the hobby (certainly the most iconic post war image). Mantle will always have that draw to collectors, not just because his numbers or legendary power or his accolades, but because he is one of the most popular players to have played the game. He's not just going to go away.

Jason

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

but I'm sure whatever analogy Adrian made has some sort of baring.

OK

[Zone91]

Runscott

I just mean that even do Batman is not # 1 and Superman is that does not mean people will ever forget about Batman (By the way in the last few years Batman is becoming more popular than Superman it is a back and forth thing in the last few years). Or you can say Mantle is like the most important silver comic with Spider-Man's 1st appearance in Amazing Fantasy # 15 in the very early 60's if you prefer....Spider-man is and will be popular for a long long long time to come. You can then use Detective # 27 for the T206 Wagner and Action # 1 for Ruth's 1914 Baltimore news cards....no matter all 3 characters will always be popular even if new comic book characters appeared after them...why because they are legendary in their own way.

To me the 2 most famous and popular baseball figures are Ruth and Mantle just the way it is. It will never be Barry Bonds and say Derek Jeter (most likely to beat the all time hit record in a couple of years) just won't happen....the 52 Topps image is known by almost the whole planet and that says a lot about it's future....this can't be said about MOST other collectibles...I know I have collected comics and coins for years. Everyone I know in Canada knows what the 52 Topps Mantle looks like (same thing with action comics # 1 and detective comics # 27 and Amazing Fantasy # 15) and also know it's importance in the hobby....and we are not even a baseball nation like you guys in the U.S.

Yes Thor, the X-Men and the Fantastic Four have their place as well but not like the Batman, Superman and Spider-Man!!!

Like the Mona Lisa painting once a image becomes the iconic image of a certain hobby USUALLY it stays that way.

On another note I am not collecting for money so the future potential does not bother me what does is that Mantle stays a part of baseball history and that he his remembered as the legend he was and still his....I believe without the famous image of the 52 Topps (rookie card or not) card he would be much less appreciated in the hobby today rarely does a SINGLE card have such a impact like that one does...it's power to draw people in when seen the image is incredible....the same can be said about the T206 Wagner!!!

Post # 12

[Piratedogcardshows]

Cool to see an Amazing Fantasy reference here.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by Zone91

Like the Mona Lisa painting
Post # 12

I've seen the Mona Lisa, and a '52 Topps Mantle is nothing like the Mona Lisa. In any way whatsoever. Compare the Mantle to comic books all you want, I can understand the analogy there. But the Mona Lisa? Nah.

[Julz24]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

I've seen the Mona Lisa, and a '52 Topps Mantle is nothing like the Mona Lisa. In any way whatsoever. Compare the Mantle to comic books all you want, I can understand the analogy there. But the Mona Lisa? Nah.

Same here. Although I had to look over and thru 20 heads to get a glimpse.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Julz24

Same here. Although I had to look over and thru 20 heads to get a glimpse.

It was certainly a let-down. Fortunately there are plenty of photos of it that do it more justice than the Louvre display, although I understand their need to protect it.

I'm assuming it's still behind a thick piece of plastic - I haven't seen it since the '90s.

[Zone91]

I just mean that the Mona Lisa is the KING in the art world same as the 1914 Babe Ruth or T206 Wagner and they are not going anywhere even if a few generations pass away....I simply feel the same about Mickey Mantles and his legendary status as the modern day king of baseball....truly many have better careers than Mantle but no to many care about those players and that is why Mantle was a legend of the game he was bigger than the game and still is and will continue to be.

Post # 3