extra red ink card

[steve B]

This one's a puzzle. The hat looks wrong, even with scratches. The dark patch looks like it might be damage that got fixed at one time. And the top of the cap is raised a bit from what a normal one would look like.

But the other areas are interesting.
Mine has the same red on the hand, and a quick check of Ebay shows that some others have it too.
The card is in general overinked a bit on all the colors. The black of the eye farthest right shows solidly black, while mine has a defenite dot pattern and structure.
Mine also has the red on the face and ear. I think on most cards it's buried under the black while on this one it's printed a bit high and so it shows. The overinking really makes it stand out.
The red lines on the uniform do appear to be under the blue and black. I really wasn't expecting to see that. It's possible that if the marker was watercolor the ink wouldn't have stuck to the oil based ink.
The blue is overinked, some show that blue others don't. Mine has traces of it in a couple areas, none in others.

There's also one I saw scans of that has some light red in the same general areas of the uniform. It's part of someone's buy it now museum, so it may be there a while.

Better scans would really help, anything 600 or better, I prefer 800. At that level you can almost see the layers of ink as layers.

Steve B

[thehoodedcoder]

hi,

can you link to the buy it now museum please.

what do you mean "raised a bit".?

i have looked up close between the piedmont 150 i have and this card which is sc 350 and i might be wrong about this but it almost looks like they are slightly different in design. i will have to check this better agin when i get home.

side note: if it was felt tip, i would expect it to bleed on the edges, in addtion to my above comments. i don't see any bleeding.

the other thing is, if it was water color. wouldn't you expect it to stain? there is a certian degree of correctability with water colors but there is always a stain that some sort of discoloration that is left behind if water color hits the paper and then is corrected. it is also a little dark for water color, althought i am not an expert on water color colors. i think they are more pastelly right?

kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

I have decided I am keeping the card.

Kevin

[Cardboard Junkie]

Aloha Kevin....What is your ultimate conclusion? Did you "black light" it. The results of UV light exam should answer the question "original" or "color added". Dave.

[Theo_450]

I know something about printing and printers because of my line of work. It seems the area between where the hat goes from red to white is at a strange angle to the X, Y matrix that printers operate on (even if the paper was not loaded entirley squarely). Shifts on mass (registration problems) are easily noticable. In my humble opinion, this looks like some sort of pen marking.

That being said, I have not held the card, and examined it to any where near the degree the buyer has, so my opinion is just my opinion.

I would also like to say that I am pleased that you decided to keep the card, because that means YOU LIKE IT! And that is what really counts!

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Theo_450

I know something about printing and printers because of my line of work. It seems the area between where the hat goes from red to white is at a strange angle to the X, Y matrix that printers operate on (even if the paper was not loaded entirley squarely). Shifts on mass (registration problems) are easily noticable. In my humble opinion, this looks like some sort of pen marking.

That being said, I have not held the card, and examined it to any where near the degree the buyer has, so my opinion is just my opinion.

I would also like to say that I am pleased that you decided to keep the card, because that means YOU LIKE IT! And that is what really counts!

Im having a hard time visualizing what you mean. I also done have the cad with me. I'm on my iPhone following the girlfriend around Costco.

Kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

Wasnt able to get a black light to my liking yet.

I'm looking for a small flashlight style and I can't find one.

I was able to find an ultra violet one.... A green light, white light, and red light one all in one at home depot. I put it under that for the time being. Nothing drastic stood out.

Kevin

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Wasnt able to get a black light to my liking yet.

I'm looking for a small flashlight style and I can't find one.

I was able to find an ultra violet one.... A green light, white light, and red light one all in one at home depot. I put it under that for the time being. Nothing drastic stood out.

Kevin

check ebay there are thousands of them

[thehoodedcoder]

true.

i just wanted to pick one up. like i said, my time is limited during the week. i made a shot at home depot last week and that is all i found. i like to buy stuff in person if im not 100 percent sure what i am buying

i just ordered this one off ebay. sounds like it will do the trick:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400466159713...84.m1497.l2649

kevin

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Wasnt able to get a black light to my liking yet.

I'm looking for a small flashlight style and I can't find one.

I was able to find an ultra violet one.... A green light, white light, and red light one all in one at home depot. I put it under that for the time being. Nothing drastic stood out.

Kevin

Kevin, this is a no-brainer. Either provide a hi-res scan and we can tell you whether or not the red is production, or mail me the card and I'll tell you. I can accomplish this in the amount of time that it takes my eyes to focus through a loupe (plus 1 second). Not bragging - almost anyone I know who collects T206's could do the same.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Kevin, this is a no-brainer. Either provide a hi-res scan and we can tell you whether or not the red is production, or mail me the card and I'll tell you. I can accomplish this in the amount of time that it takes my eyes to focus through a loupe (plus 1 second). Not bragging - almost anyone I know who collects T206's could do the same.

im sorry that this discussion is not coming to a close fast enough for you. lol.

i didn't even reopen the thread to discussion really. i simply said...im keeping it, to provide resolution to the seller, then responded to someones inquiry.

i am doing the best with what i have. i have my best scans up, with the scanner i have. im not going out to buy a new scanner to scan this card. its just not happening. i don't have a need for one and almost don't even want the one i have, since i never use the useless printer attached to it.

i have a loupe. i have looked it. i have taken a picture of it through the loupe and uploaded it to my site. it shows almost everything you can see through the loupe.

kevin

[steve B]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

hi,

can you link to the buy it now museum please.

what do you mean "raised a bit".?

i have looked up close between the piedmont 150 i have and this card which is sc 350 and i might be wrong about this but it almost looks like they are slightly different in design. i will have to check this better agin when i get home.

side note: if it was felt tip, i would expect it to bleed on the edges, in addtion to my above comments. i don't see any bleeding.

the other thing is, if it was water color. wouldn't you expect it to stain? there is a certian degree of correctability with water colors but there is always a stain that some sort of discoloration that is left behind if water color hits the paper and then is corrected. it is also a little dark for water color, althought i am not an expert on water color colors. i think they are more pastelly right?

kevin

Sorry, the "buy it now museum" is how someone else refered to the assortment of very overpriced cards that are avalable with buy it now - And have been for a couple years. I liked that name and decided to use it.

The one I was looking at was this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190818811835...ht_2082wt_1161

It's got some red in areas that yours does, and where most others don't. The cuff of the sleeve, the area that looks like a line between two sleeves around the elbow, and the folds of the uniform under the arm.

The 150 and 350 may have slight differences. There are a couple where it's obvious like Conroy.
Craigs pair of beaters show some differences between them. It's hard to tell if they're different, or if a bit of it is from the scanner/camera (I'm guessing camera, but that's a great pic for a camera, or a not so good scan)

The sort of ink matters, nearly all inks are either a dye or colorant in a carrier, or a straight dye. Inks used in lithography are all oil based. Markers are an odd collection of types. Some like sharpies are probably oil based, while many of the cheaper markers are water based. (Or less commonly alcohol)

The process of lithography uses a plate that will retain water with sections that are sealed so they will accept the oil based ink which won't stick to the wet plate.
So, the reverse also works. If you have an oil based ink on paper and write over it with a marker that has non-oil based ink the marker ink will write on the paper and not where the ink is.
The inks can be nearly any thickness. Since with a marker you want a nice clean line the ink dries fairly quickly and should be a bit thick. (Not like watercolor paints which are usually mixed to be very wet.)

The top of the hat is hard to explain. On most Delehantys, there's line that makes the curve of the hat. The button on top is shown by an angled line that's connected to the curve on the right hand side. On yours, that angled section is angled up more, and the bit of curve to the left of it is well above the arc of the hat while the rest of the line from the left almost to the middle is right where it's supposed to be.

I may have to do some photoshop or sketch it for it to make sense.

Steve B

[thehoodedcoder]

well i just bought that card....so its not in the museum any longer. lol.

you know a lot about printing....my dad used to run a press but he has long since retired and is exhibiting signs of CRS. LOL.

when examining the red hat card and my psa 6 piedmont card i noticed slight differences as well. it made me start to wonder if it is a slightly different design/redraw of the same card. i didn't study it hard enough yet from that aspect...but i read a post some where that was talking about the lundgren KC card and the other lundgren card were actually different redraw and figured maybe its a possiblity.

yea. i am totally lost on your explanation without a picture.
the other image you showed with a circle is probably less effective than an arrow terminating at the exact thing you are talking about. can you literally point to exactly what you mean?

kevin