Babe Ruth?

[Frozen in Time]

If the consignor's story is true (I have no reason from what I have read so far to believe that is not the case) then the ticket and Ruth auto are real, period. This is supported by the authentication of both the ticket and auto twice by Spence and SGS.

On the other hand, both Richard and Chris are adamant that the auto (and perhaps also the ticket in Chris's case) is/are fake and, more specifically the work of a forger in Michigan that they know the name of as well as his specific "tells" when doing Ruth autos.

So, what is the truth? How can one determine which story/opinion is correct?
With the paucity of details coming from those who believe the auto and/or the ticket is/are not real, I for one tend to believe the consignor's story that both are authentic.

Perhaps more importantly, what have we learned from this thread? Certainly nothing to help anyone in their quest to be able to distinguish authentic Ruth autos from fakes. And the unwillingness of those that claim they have proof of some crook that sells Ruth forgeries to share that information with H&S or respected members of this forum in private communication, despite all the reasons for not doing so that have been posted, still seems to me to be a step backward for the Hobby and another slippery slide forward for the forgers.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Frozen in Time

If the consignor's story is true (I have no reason from what I have read so far to believe that is not the case) then the ticket and Ruth auto are real, period. This is supported by the authentication of both the ticket and auto twice by Spence and SGS.

On the other hand, both Richard and Chris are adamant that the auto (and perhaps also the ticket in Chris's case) is/are fake and, more specifically the work of a forger in Michigan that they know the name of as well as his specific "tells" when doing Ruth autos.

So, what is the truth? How can one determine which story/opinion is correct?
With the paucity of details coming from those who believe the auto and/or the ticket is/are not real, I for one tend to believe the consignor's story that both are authentic.

Perhaps more importantly, what have we learned from this thread? Certainly nothing to help anyone in their quest to be able to distinguish authentic Ruth autos from fakes. And the unwillingness of those that claim they have proof of some crook that sells Ruth forgeries to share that information with H&S or respected members of this forum in private communication, despite all the reasons for not doing so that have been posted, still seems to me to be a step backward for the Hobby and another slippery slide forward for the forgers.

+1

This entire thing is BS. The auction ends tonight and nothing. If it ends this way, there is a whole lot of credibility that will be lost for a myriad of reasons.
I would be more worried about litigation with the consigner than a mystery forger in Iowa. One does not have to reveal a name to say why it is bad. “Tell” us why it is bad.
THIS is doing NOTHING positive for the hobby in ANY WAY if left open ended like this.
I hope something is shared.. and shared pronto. If nothing is shared, it is an injustice to the consigner, H&S, JSA, the potential buyer and this board. If there is nothing to tell and/or a mistake was made, that should be shared too.
This appears to be about Egos now and not for the greater good of the hobby. I guess I am not surprised.. just VERY disappointed on what this forum has become.

[jgmp123]

Last time I post or reply in this thread:

Why is it that so many people on here are more than happy when they post an autograph and ask for an opinion from Chris or Richard about its authenticity and when they reply with Good or Bad, they are perfectly fine with that.....

But now they have no credibility

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Last time I post or reply in this thread:

Why is it that so many people on here are more than happy when they post an autograph and ask for an opinion from Chris or Richard about its authenticity and when they reply with Good or Bad, they are perfectly fine with that.....

But now they have no credibility

Chris, I believe has had the trust of many people on here. He has done a lot of great things. I think that is why this is very frustrating for people including myself.
However, Credibility is not a forever stamp.
I am sure he has his reasons for not adding to his thread for days. If it is simply an opinion, that is fine.. just state that. But to say it is absolute, there should be some proof. This is my opinion.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Last time I post or reply in this thread:

Why is it that so many people on here are more than happy when they post an autograph and ask for an opinion from Chris or Richard about its authenticity and when they reply with Good or Bad, they are perfectly fine with that.....

But now they have no credibility

Two different camps. There are probably a few who think certain people's opinions are infallible, but I haven't seen them questioning Chris or Richard's credibility in this thread.

David and Chris have a dispute, but if you ignore that, the main thrust of this thread is 'evidence', not credibility.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Runscott

David and Chris have a dispute, but if you ignore that, the main thrust of this thread is 'evidence', not credibility.

Claiming to have evidence, but refusing to share it with anyone, in order to a) help clean up the hobby, or b) simply show that you're not full of sh*t, goes directly to a person's credibility, Scott.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Claiming to have evidence, but refusing to share it with anyone, in order to a) help clean up the hobby, or b) simply show that you're not full of sh*t, goes directly to a person's credibility, Scott.

Agreed, but I think the OP was referring to the credibility of Chris' opinion on whether or not a signature is authentic.

[Runscott]

...but thinking ahead, if Chris at some point presents evidence that the ticket and/or provenance or fraudulent, then we would have to deal with the authenticity of the signature. Certainly someone could have forged a Ruth signature on a good ticket, but if the ticket is bad, then the signature is bad.

Which is why the 'tell' is irrelevant at this point.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Agreed, but I think the OP was referring to the credibility of Chris' opinion on whether or not a signature is authentic.

If the OP is me, that is not the case I value Chris' opinion as well as many other's on this board.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

+1

This entire thing is BS. The auction ends tonight and nothing. If it ends this way, there is a whole lot of credibility that will be lost for a myriad of reasons.
I would be more worried about litigation with the consigner than a mystery forger in Iowa. One does not have to reveal a name to say why it is bad. “Tell” us why it is bad.
THIS is doing NOTHING positive for the hobby in ANY WAY if left open ended like this.
I hope something is shared.. and shared pronto. If nothing is shared, it is an injustice to the consigner, H&S, JSA, the potential buyer and this board. If there is nothing to tell and/or a mistake was made, that should be shared too.
This appears to be about Egos now and not for the greater good of the hobby. I guess I am not surprised.. just VERY disappointed on what this forum has become.

And the white knight facade crumbles a bit more.