Babe Ruth?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Last time I post or reply in this thread:

Why is it that so many people on here are more than happy when they post an autograph and ask for an opinion from Chris or Richard about its authenticity and when they reply with Good or Bad, they are perfectly fine with that.....

But now they have no credibility

Two different camps. There are probably a few who think certain people's opinions are infallible, but I haven't seen them questioning Chris or Richard's credibility in this thread.

David and Chris have a dispute, but if you ignore that, the main thrust of this thread is 'evidence', not credibility.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Runscott

David and Chris have a dispute, but if you ignore that, the main thrust of this thread is 'evidence', not credibility.

Claiming to have evidence, but refusing to share it with anyone, in order to a) help clean up the hobby, or b) simply show that you're not full of sh*t, goes directly to a person's credibility, Scott.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Claiming to have evidence, but refusing to share it with anyone, in order to a) help clean up the hobby, or b) simply show that you're not full of sh*t, goes directly to a person's credibility, Scott.

Agreed, but I think the OP was referring to the credibility of Chris' opinion on whether or not a signature is authentic.

[Runscott]

...but thinking ahead, if Chris at some point presents evidence that the ticket and/or provenance or fraudulent, then we would have to deal with the authenticity of the signature. Certainly someone could have forged a Ruth signature on a good ticket, but if the ticket is bad, then the signature is bad.

Which is why the 'tell' is irrelevant at this point.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Runscott

...but thinking ahead, if Chris at some point presents evidence that the ticket and/or provenance or fraudulent, then we would have to deal with the authenticity of the signature.

At some point? The auction ends tonight!

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Runscott

...but thinking ahead, if Chris at some point presents evidence that the ticket and/or provenance or fraudulent, then we would have to deal with the authenticity of the signature. Certainly someone could have forged a Ruth signature on a good ticket, but if the ticket is bad, then the signature is bad.

Which is why the 'tell' is irrelevant at this point.

Isn't it possible that Ruth could have signed a ticket and then someone wante dto make it extra special and make it his 700th? I know a stretch but possible right? That is, unless the entire ticket is a forgery.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Agreed, but I think the OP was referring to the credibility of Chris' opinion on whether or not a signature is authentic.

If the OP is me, that is not the case I value Chris' opinion as well as many other's on this board.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

If the OP is me, that is not the case I value Chris' opinion as well as many other's on this board.

I don't remember who it was. This is one of those threads where you don't want to have to go back and look for anything - it must be a good read, though, or we wouldn't have so many people popping in and stating that they just got through reading the entire thing.

I've enjoyed it so much that I made a new pot of coffee before sitting down to read the last few pages Of course, that could still be the afterglow of watching the Astros dismantle the Mariners after all the trash-talk in the Seattle newspaper.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Of course, that could still be the afterglow of watching the Astros dismantle the Mariners after all the trash-talk in the Seattle newspaper.

Scott - I have respected your posts throughout Net54 but an Astros fan?
Wow,,, I thought it was bad for me being a Mets fan,,, but the Astros? .
I will have to look at your posts in a whole new light now .
You should try to find a major league team to root for.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Scott - I have respected your posts throughout Net54 but an Astros fan?
Wow,,, I thought it was bad for me being a Mets fan,,, but the Astros? .
I will have to look at your posts in a whole new light now .
You should try to find a major league team to root for.

Like the Tribe!! The didn't lose to the yankees last night, it's like a victory! (And if it rains again today, chalk up another non-loss in the, uh, well, some column!)

Ken

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Scott - I have respected your posts throughout Net54 but an Astros fan?
Wow,,, I thought it was bad for me being a Mets fan,,, but the Astros? .
I will have to look at your posts in a whole new light now .
You should try to find a major league team to root for.

That was cruel.

Yesterday I was wearing my Astros garb prior to the game, and one of our building janitors looked at me in surprise, and asked in broken English: "Are you REALLY an Astros fan?!?"

I guess being an Astros or Mets fan could explain some things - maybe having a sort of weird 'Napoleon complex' due to shortness of team?

[Frozen in Time]

I originally joined this forum because of my interest in vintage photos. After a couple of years viewing numerous threads I was very pleased with the amount of new information regarding this topic (and others) that were covered. In particular I have valued very much the free exchange of ideas, different views and new perspectives that have been shared with friends like Jimmy and Ben via PMs. I have enjoyed these interactions very much and have learned a lot!

I guess I was spoiled by the positive and sharing environment that existed with the vintage photo community (and many others on this forum), because many of the autograph threads that I have read, and this one in particular, pale in comparison from a sharing/learning experience point of view.

Yes, I have learned a lot about Mantle autos (mostly from a few kind individuals who were willing to PM some very helpful criteria to look for) but for some reason many of the auto threads seem primarily to involve agendas, drama, egos and personal attacks. I realize that is often the price of admission and I'm fine with that, I just wish more of the "experts" would try to help novices like myself by sharing actual facts/evidence when it comes to a determination of authenticity. Otherwise, I don't see the point.

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by Frozen in Time

I guess I was spoiled by the positive and sharing environment that existed with the vintage photo community (and many others on this forum), because many of the autograph threads that I have read, and this one in particular, pale in comparison from a sharing/learning experience point of view.

Craig -

In case you haven't figured it out by now, autograph collectors are, to put it kindly, a little "different" than most collectors. I'll certainly put myself in this category.

Honestly I don't know why, but it is true. We take on projects we can never complete - like complete runs of signed trading cards, or everyone whoever played for a team or sport, knowing full well that there are no known examples of some autographs and such projects will never be completed. We argue over authenticity and who signs/who doesn't.

It was a very tight-knit community once, maybe back in the 1980s and before, we were shunned by the card collectors, despised by the memorabilia collectors but we got our kicks hanging out all day at ballparks and hotels and trading envelopes full of duplicates through the mail to people we never met. Yeah, we bought and sold too, ten cents a pop for commons and a Maris might run you $3.00.

I think there is also a bit of bitterness in us hard-core graphers. We all hate, absolutely hate the passing off of forgeries. For me, it was attending and selling at shows in the early 1990s, when guys I'd never seen at the ballparks or hotels suddenly had binders full of all the big names - Mantle, Dimaggio, Williams, Jordan, and bit nice looking sharpie signed pieces. Every card shop had signed stuff with COAs (from now discredited TPAs).

I could tell they were bad, but people kept buying them because they looked nice. At the time I didn't offer COA's and didn't think I needed to since I got nearly everything in person or from someone else who did.

Then the card shops started sending armies of kids out to the hotels and ballparks and ruined it for everyone.

And now, you have players charging upwards of $100 a signature and getting it.

I was priced out of the hobby long ago, I limit my collecting to the few (and new) A's, Seals and Sharks.

But I remember the older guys in the hobby who were always nice to me - Dick Dobbins, Stan Marks, Will Davis, Steve Brunner, Bill Zekus, Mike Wheat, Bill Corcoran, Ron Gordon, Doug McWilliams and Hall of Famer Nick Peters just to name a few...and I always feel a responsibility to follow their example and help out when I can.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't let the drama put you off, hard as that may be. Some of this stuff is like a soap opera, you hate yourself for watching/reading, but you want to see how it turns out.

Maybe some of us old-timers who are a little too quiet here should post about some of our experiences. I'm a little reluctant as Jim Stinson's stories and writing ability put mine to shame, but I'll have a go at it, assuming anyone want to hear about the "good old days".