The Further Decline of Brick & Mortar...

[Rich Klein]

the one nearest us does not have much in vintage but he is a decent enough person and there is another store Nick's at Campbell and Coit who usually has a nice selection of older singles (usually a tad off condition) at ebay competitive prices. He even occassionally has some pre-war as well

Rich

[queencitysportscards]

I can tell you that the "old card shop" has since faded, however, there are many of us (me included) who miss the days of working around the house & neighborhood to earn extra money to get cash to go to the local card shop and purchase packs or singles. I miss those days like many of us do. So...I am proud to announce that I am opening my own card shop / auction house in mid-April. We will be located in a historic village of Glendale, OH and our name is Queen City Sports Cards (Cincinnati is called the Queen City). We have an old fashioned approach and will even have free coffee on us to talk shop.

Times have changed and we will be current with the times with monthly auctions, but we will still have that old fashioned feel and experience. I hope Leon is OK with with me posting this (not a free plug as I want to advertise here and we have discussed this), but it has been a lifetime endeavor to put all of this together. Plus, I have a 4 year old son and he will be able to grow into the hobby with dear old dad...I can't think of a better experience than that...

We are going to have some fun on Tuesday as we will be hosting Chris Heisey of the Cincinnati Reds with more current and former players to visit in the near future.

I hope I get to work / deal with many of you on the board (and thank you to those I have...you know who you are).

I look forward to providing a great experience and you will never get any "gruff" from me if you stop by.

Thanks for all of the knowledge and participation on this forum...I enjoy reading through the post every day.

Happy Collecting!

[Ease]

Good luck with your store Hank!

[Orioles1954]

Has there ever been a primarily vintage card shop?

[mintacular]

Yes, 90% of store owners will overcharge for vintage. I find that the only way to get a good price is to cherry-pick commons and pay "book price" which in some cases is ok. I did recently pay decent coin for a '57 ungraded that would have been very hard to buy online....But most run of the mill off-centered stars/rc's are way overpriced....Also, sometimes Beckett is wrong in the other direction, i.e. underpriced. Would gladly pay for '57 Lucky Penny cards at their prices. Anyway, the card I bought for $100, would not have bought the same card online:

[Tanman7baseball]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Has there ever been a primarily vintage card shop?

I remember a primarily vintage shop near Orange County, CA back about 10 years ago. It closed down (don't remember when) but it only carried extremely high-end cards and memorabilia. Literally I can only remember things being in the thousands... Since I was only 12 years old I obviously couldn't afford anything. I'm assuming it closed down because it just turned into a museum instead of a card shop. Sadly, I feel most shops are like this.

I have been thinking about our hobby a lot lately. I am in my early 20s and rarely do I find a vintage collector that is my age. Now this makes me think...what is the average age for a vintage baseball card collector? 45-55 years old or so?

I collect cards, because I love baseball. I have yet to sell anything I own, but I know there will come a time when I will. My question is, what is going to happen to the card market when the average 45-55 year old "kicks the bucket"? Will card prices plunge? I know about 2 other people who enjoy collecting vintage baseball cards that are my age. I am finishing up college here at Oklahoma State University and have talked to hundreds of people about the baseball card world. No interest. The last 6 months I have tried to help a man start up a local card shop. Within that 6 month span I did not meet one person my age who collected baseball cards (modern or vintage).

My ultimate question is who will I sell to in 40 or 50 years?

[Texxxx]

I have one shop in the town I live in. Next one is 160 miles away. The guy that runs it is friendly enough but if you don't know what things are worth he has no problem sticking it to you. He never really got to me but I have seen him way over sell things to other people. The vintage stuff he has is way over priced so I don't buy many cards there. I believe they are really just his collection that he puts out for show with the old saying that everything is for sale for the right price. If I had a store I could see doing that.

[Seattle799]

In many ways ebay has been a blessing and curse. It is nice logging on and being able to buy pretty much any card you want (it may take a few months to find it listed, but eventually it's going to be there). I grew up in Minneapolis and once a year there was the Thunderbird show (EVERYBODY who was anybody in the 90's knows about the T-bird show). At any rate, I remember looking forward to that show for months because it was the one place you could find just about anything you wanted.

Now, log on to ebay and just buy it. I don't know... I just think part of the fun died when ebay caught on.

I get that there are far less kids collecting now. But the future isn't completely bleak. I turned 30 a week ago, I am approaching 50/524 on the monster.

[Orioles1954]

To answer my own question (bad form, I know)....I've been in the hobby since 1984 when I was 8 years old. First card shop visited was Dixies Card Shop in Williamsport, PA. Second card shop was the legendary Den's Collectors Den in Laurel, MD. I've been to hundreds of shops over the decades since and I've NEVER seen one that depends on vintage card sales as its main source of revenue. It's has always been packs, boxes and singles of the day, and even supplies before vintage. House of Cards in Silver Spring, Maryland has a large supply of vintage singles and out of every 100 customers, maybe 10% purchase pre-1960s cards.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Tanman7baseball

I have been thinking about our hobby a lot lately. I am in my early 20s and rarely do I find a vintage collector that is my age. Now this makes me think...what is the average age for a vintage baseball card collector? 45-55 years old or so?

I collect cards, because I love baseball. I have yet to sell anything I own, but I know there will come a time when I will. My question is, what is going to happen to the card market when the average 45-55 year old "kicks the bucket"? Will card prices plunge? I know about 2 other people who enjoy collecting vintage baseball cards that are my age. I am finishing up college here at Oklahoma State University and have talked to hundreds of people about the baseball card world. No interest. The last 6 months I have tried to help a man start up a local card shop. Within that 6 month span I did not meet one person my age who collected baseball cards (modern or vintage).

My ultimate question is who will I sell to in 40 or 50 years?

I think this post is spot on, and I have had many of the same thoughts in recent years. I just turned 40, and I wonder how much the lack of interest among younger people is the perception that it is a shady hobby. Obviously, I am not painting everyone with the same brush and there are many wonderful and ethical collectors and dealers out there.

But it does seem at times like everywhere you turn, someone is trying to perpetrate a scam or rip buyers off.

[Tanman7baseball]

All I know is when I was young I was sold a Mickey Mantle baseball. Turned out fake and turned me off from collecting for a long time. Ten years later I just had to start collecting again. And yet again, I ended up buying another fake autograph. This time it happened to be Jackie Robinson. Talked to a dealer for hours at the card show. Trusted him enough to buy an auto without a COA. Obviously I recognize my ignorance and lack of knowledge for being the sole reason I ended up buying it, but how is someone new to the hobby going to handle that? I don't collect autographs anymore because of that incident... I went to a card show and thought he was a trusted dealer. Honestly, I believe people most people my age are too lazy to look up and learn the overwhelming information needed to become a knowledgeable collector. Hence, why they don't care to collect.

[beachhead2]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I think this post is spot on, and I have had many of the same thoughts in recent years. I just turned 40, and I wonder how much the lack of interest among younger people is the perception that it is a shady hobby. Obviously, I am not painting everyone with the same brush and there are many wonderful and ethical collectors and dealers out there.

But it does seem at times like everywhere you turn, someone is trying to perpetrate a scam or rip buyers off.

I'm 41 and your post resonates with me. While third-party-grading has its limitations, on some level that is what gave me the confidence to re-enter this hobby (especially for online transactions). I'm not sure that I ever had a good experience at a card shop. I grew up in south St. Louis and I remember card shops in the 80's-90's having no use for kid's small change. The operators were almost always surly a-holes. I do not bemoan their demise. I do love card shows. Between shows, web sites like this, and web auctions, I'm not sure I need anything else.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Tanman7baseball

I remember a primarily vintage shop near Orange County, CA back about 10 years ago. It closed down (don't remember when) but it only carried extremely high-end cards and memorabilia. Literally I can only remember things being in the thousands... Since I was only 12 years old I obviously couldn't afford anything. I'm assuming it closed down because it just turned into a museum instead of a card shop. Sadly, I feel most shops are like this.

I have been thinking about our hobby a lot lately. I am in my early 20s and rarely do I find a vintage collector that is my age. Now this makes me think...what is the average age for a vintage baseball card collector? 45-55 years old or so?

I collect cards, because I love baseball. I have yet to sell anything I own, but I know there will come a time when I will. My question is, what is going to happen to the card market when the average 45-55 year old "kicks the bucket"? Will card prices plunge? I know about 2 other people who enjoy collecting vintage baseball cards that are my age. I am finishing up college here at Oklahoma State University and have talked to hundreds of people about the baseball card world. No interest. The last 6 months I have tried to help a man start up a local card shop. Within that 6 month span I did not meet one person my age who collected baseball cards (modern or vintage).

My ultimate question is who will I sell to in 40 or 50 years?

There have been many threads on this subject. In my opinion, there are many collectors in that age group partially because it's more likely an age group that could afford to spend what it takes. I'm 32 years old and would have been collecting much much longer if I could have. I used to go to card shows with my brothers and drool all over the showcases... Cards were so beautiful in their late 80s-raw glory

Most well-to-do adults collect stuff. Maybe not BB cards, but something... BB cards are americana and will always be collected IMO. So in 40-50 years, you will probably be selling to guys in the 45-55 age group, just like how it is now.


-

[Tanman7baseball]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

There have been many threads on this subject. In my opinion, there are many collectors in that age group partially because it's more likely an age group that could afford to spend what it takes. I'm 32 years old and would have been collecting much much longer if I could have. I used to go to card shows with my brothers and drool all over the showcases... Cards were so beautiful in their late 80s-raw glory

Most well-to-do adults collect stuff. Maybe not BB cards, but something... BB cards are americana and will always be collected IMO. So in 40-50 years, you will probably be selling to guys in the 45-55 age group, just like how it is now.


-

Good point. I know to collect these cards you need money. My age = not that much money yet. I will point out though that the collectors like yourself who drool over these cards when they were young, do not exist in nearly the amount they used to. Rarely do I see kids drooling over vintage cards at card shows. I was usually the only one back 10 years ago when I'd go to semi-annual Hollywood Park Casino card show. I'm just saying people in the 45-55 year old age group used to dream about having these cards as a kid so now that they can afford them they are buying them. Less kids drooling today means less older men buying tomorrow.

All in all, I'm not saying that the hobby will die but in my opinion the population of dedicated vintage collectors will decline dramatically. But for card prices they will surely rise... I hope.

[ls7plus]

Most well-to-do adults collect stuff. Maybe not BB cards, but something... BB cards are americana and will always be collected IMO. So in 40-50 years, you will probably be selling to guys in the 45-55 age group, just like how it is now.


-

IMHO, this is exactly how it will work out--after all, look how many people collect Cobb, the Babe, Matty, Honus (if they can). None of these people were alive when these guys actually played. Baseball is Americana, and MLB does a terrific job of promoting their tradition. Plus, look at how many books are being written about the game, focused on times long since gone? If there wasn't a market for them, they would never be published.

By the way, the same fear has been prevalent in the coin market for decades, with people concerned that new, young blood was not entering their hobby, or that values had peaked. Meanwhile, really rare, significant have just been going up and up! People like to collect things related to their passions and/or youth, and that isn't going to change.

May your collecting days be filled with satisfaction,

Larry

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Tanman7baseball

I remember a primarily vintage shop near Orange County, CA back about 10 years ago. It closed down (don't remember when) but it only carried extremely high-end cards and memorabilia. Literally I can only remember things being in the thousands... Since I was only 12 years old I obviously couldn't afford anything. I'm assuming it closed down because it just turned into a museum instead of a card shop. Sadly, I feel most shops are like this.

I have been thinking about our hobby a lot lately. I am in my early 20s and rarely do I find a vintage collector that is my age. Now this makes me think...what is the average age for a vintage baseball card collector? 45-55 years old or so?

I collect cards, because I love baseball. I have yet to sell anything I own, but I know there will come a time when I will. My question is, what is going to happen to the card market when the average 45-55 year old "kicks the bucket"? Will card prices plunge? I know about 2 other people who enjoy collecting vintage baseball cards that are my age. I am finishing up college here at Oklahoma State University and have talked to hundreds of people about the baseball card world. No interest. The last 6 months I have tried to help a man start up a local card shop. Within that 6 month span I did not meet one person my age who collected baseball cards (modern or vintage).

My ultimate question is who will I sell to in 40 or 50 years?

I think Leon did a poll of the average age of collectors on the board, maybe he can pull it up. But, as far as the card prices plunging; I think this is where you have to ask yourself what is the most important thing- how much your cards may be worth in the future, or, how much you enjoy collecting regardless of what happens down the road? I'm sure we all hope our cards will retain at least what we put into them-but, you have to accept the fact that anything can happen. 20 years from now that $1,000.00 card may be worth $100.00,,,,,or that $1,000.00 card may be worth $2,000.00. I just enjoy trying to put together the set because it's thrilling to me, and whatever happens in the future happens. It's a little easier if you don't look at the cards as an investment

As far as the card shops, I've had mixed luck locally. A few years ago, the oldest cards you would see would be '50's cards. Now, they are carrying some pre war cards. I know one of the shop owners told me he has to sell on ebay to stay afloat (this was a few years ago). I would love to see a card shop 100% devoted to pre war cards !!! That would be awesome.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Tanman7baseball]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I think Leon did a poll of the average age of collectors on the board, maybe he can pull it up. But, as far as the card prices plunging; I think this is where you have to ask yourself what is the most important thing- how much your cards may be worth in the future, or, how much you enjoy collecting regardless of what happens down the road? I'm sure we all hope our cards will retain at least what we put into them-but, you have to accept the fact that anything can happen. 20 years from now that $1,000.00 card may be worth $100.00,,,,,or that $1,000.00 card may be worth $2,000.00. I just enjoy trying to put together the set because it's thrilling to me, and whatever happens in the future happens. It's a little easier if you don't look at the cards as an investment

Sincerely, Clayton

I agree with you. I have never had any desire to sell. I am very passionate about collecting baseball cards and I love the history. I will say that since I have joined Net 54 I think I might start liquidating my 50s and 60s to start buying pre-war . I know that the big names will hold value, but to justify spending thousands of dollars on cards instead of putting into the stock market I like to think that if I have potential increased value in these cards.

Lastly, if there is ever a time in my life where I am in dire need of money I will sell my car and everything else I have before my cards...

Sorry guys for straying off the topic of B&M. But if anyone is in Oklahoma and you are itching to go to a card shop I would reccomend Al's Sports Cards. One small showcase filled with vintage but he will occasionally get in pre-war. Prices are usually high, but occasionally you will find some reasonable deals. He treats his customers with respect and will reward his loyal customers with better pricing. Probably why he is basically the only card shop left in Oklahoma...

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Tanman7baseball

My question is, what is going to happen to the card market when the average 45-55 year old "kicks the bucket"? Will card prices plunge? I know about 2 other people who enjoy collecting vintage baseball cards that are my age. I am finishing up college here at Oklahoma State University and have talked to hundreds of people about the baseball card world. No interest. The last 6 months I have tried to help a man start up a local card shop. Within that 6 month span I did not meet one person my age who collected baseball cards (modern or vintage).

My ultimate question is who will I sell to in 40 or 50 years?

I think that overall the demand will fall as people forget who the more obscure players were. However, the big names will always draw a big dollar.

[sylbry]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

I think that overall the demand will fall as people forget who the more obscure players were. However, the big names will always draw a big dollar.

I agree with this 100%. Collector's will always be interest in the big names/big cards. As far as high grade commons go... that is just throwing money away. Set collecting is a dying passion.

It is easy to gripe about card shops/owners but what about sellers at card shows. I attended my first card show in nearly two decades. Flew to Chicago for the Sun Times show. I found the cards I was looking for to have an asking price of 2 to 3 times current ebay auction prices.

Found the show to be nothing more than a live version of the overpriced BINs on ebay. I didn't buy anything and left after an hour. Needless to say I have no intention of ever going back to another show. What really irks me is passing on a few cards on ebay thinking I would spend money at the Sun Times show. After all, should be a better selection at the show. At that point I realized if the hobby was still card shops and shows I would not have re-entered it.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Tanman7baseball

My ultimate question is who will I sell to in 40 or 50 years?

Providing that :
1.) The country gets back on the right track
2.) The game has not been destroyed by over regulation and the urge to make too many rules (ie NFL)

Have recently had the pleasure of finding some quality vintage (semi) pieces for the Boss' 6 year old grandson who plays baseball - is a huge Brewers and Astros fan and has the collecting bug really bad (good?).

I picked up a high grade Yount Rookie for him which he loved. Same with the Biggio and Bagwell rookies. Quite rewarding to see the younger folks still get bitten by the bug.

40-50 years? I would venture to say that the vintage hobby will skyrocket. You do realize that there is a relatively limited supply of vintage - right?