April 13, the day autographs stand still !!!!

[toybulldog]

I'm in complete agreement with you. I don't care how experienced anyone is in anything. If they can't be around people who share their passion without alienating them, then who CAN they be around? Like I said I'm fed up and I'm not trying to insult anyone. I just can't believe that I can't enjoy an autograph forum amongst the most experienced collectors in the country because one guy can't help himself. It's beyond frustrating.

Problem solved, Moosedog in post #22 has come up with the perfect solution for you or anyone else who doesn't care for Travis' comments....

For what it's worth, there is a function built into the Forum software here that allows anyone to "hide" postings by any other member. This function is available on nearly every platform like this and is commonly referred to as a "Bozo Filter".

If you are logged in, to to "User CP" on the dark menu bar below the forums listings. Click there, and on the next screen about 1/2 way down the menu on the left is "Edit Ignore List". You can put the screen name of anyone you want to ignore (one at a time), click Save Changes", and you won't have to be tempted to read what you don't want to....

You'll still see when someone on your Ignore List has posted something, but there won't be any of the posting visible unless you want to un-ignore them.

However something tells me that most or all will not use this function and continue to pressure Leon the moderator into giving him the heave-ho. "Travis is ruining it for everyone" seems like one big smokescreen to me with an ulterior motive. Personally I never get tired of reading about or exposing the TPA corruption in this hobby and could do so 24/7. Looking forward to more posts like this in the future

[keithsky]

I think the biggest problem with people complaining about PSA or JSA is that those companies need to come on here and answer some of the peoples questions or comments. They choose to remain silent on here and I think if they had someone from each comapny take questions or complaints I think people would be satified or at least somewhat. They choose to not respond to anybodys comments or come on here and it just fuels the fire. At least when people a few months ago complained about Hertitage Auction they at least had the balls to respond to peoples comments which to me was great. But JSA and PSA seem like they don't want to waste there time coming on here or there afraid to take the heat. It would ease all the blasting that Travis and others who can't stand these companies give to them and maybe shed some light on some of the TPA practices

[Exhibitman]

There is a difference between presenting arguments over specific facts--like the bad Marciano glove recently outed here--and simply attacking everything about TPAs regardless of whether there is any ascertainable issue with any specific item. If you listen to Travis [something I will not do any longer given the "ignore" function--thanks for the heads up on that one], everything a TPA ever does is wrong and everything they touch is tainted. That is simply not accurate or fair, and it is tedious, negative and unpleasant to read through. Hammer away at TPAs when they mess up and I'll be your biggest supporter, but to go after everything they say or do so indiscriminately reeks of a vendetta. It reminds me of a friend's mother who lived in occupied France as a teenage girl and who could never say or hear the word "German" without adding "bastards" and spitting on the ground.

I know nothing I am saying here is going to change things; I don't expect it to. I merely want to voice my view that these continual screeds against TPAs make this section of the board unpleasant to read. It is damaging to the community and it turns this section of the board into small echo chamber of narrow views. I know that every time I read one, I lose interest in the forum. That doesn't make me a person who is not interested in authenticity or in righting errors made by TPAs, BTW, just a person who prefers not to spend his leisure time in an indiscriminately negative, hostile environment.

OK, sharing time is over, back to bashing JSA, PSA and whoever else.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Hammer away at TPAs when they mess up and I'll be your biggest supporter, but to go after everything they say or do so indiscriminately reeks of a vendetta.

There is a difference with their "ad hoc" screwups, which you can point out as they do them and their "strategic" screwups which you can point out at will.

They are different things.

The strategic screwups lead to the adhoc ones. In a sense, if you only point out the screwups as they happen, you're really doing nothing to solve anything.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

...but to go after everything they say or do so indiscriminately reeks of a vendetta. It reminds me of a friend's mother who lived in occupied France as a teenage girl and who could never say or hear the word "German" without adding "bastards" and spitting on the ground

C'mon, Adam! You think that's a vendetta? You don't think that perhaps--just perhaps--that woman was justified?

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

There is a difference between presenting arguments over specific facts--like the bad Marciano glove recently outed here--and simply attacking everything about TPAs regardless of whether there is any ascertainable issue with any specific item. If you listen to Travis [something I will not do any longer given the "ignore" function--thanks for the heads up on that one], everything a TPA ever does is wrong and everything they touch is tainted. That is simply not accurate or fair, and it is tedious, negative and unpleasant to read through. Hammer away at TPAs when they mess up and I'll be your biggest supporter, but to go after everything they say or do so indiscriminately reeks of a vendetta. It reminds me of a friend's mother who lived in occupied France as a teenage girl and who could never say or hear the word "German" without adding "bastards" and spitting on the ground.

I know nothing I am saying here is going to change things; I don't expect it to. I merely want to voice my view that these continual screeds against TPAs make this section of the board unpleasant to read. It is damaging to the community and it turns this section of the board into small echo chamber of narrow views. I know that every time I read one, I lose interest in the forum. That doesn't make me a person who is not interested in authenticity or in righting errors made by TPAs, BTW, just a person who prefers not to spend his leisure time in an indiscriminately negative, hostile environment.

OK, sharing time is over, back to bashing JSA, PSA and whoever else.

Yes! Thank you for typing out most of what I wanted to say.

I would only add that there can be a respectful tone when a collector who is new to the board mentions using an alphabet. I think that those collectors are sometimes spoken down to and even belittled. You cannot educate people that way, you can only alienate them away from a mostly excellent community that exists here.

[toybulldog]

If I went on the card side and posted day after about how annoyed I am that X card got X grade people would be telling me to give it a rest too. And they would be in the right to do so. Add in some personal attacks on the people behind the companies. It would never play over there. Why should it be different over here.

Then they should use the bozo filter on you, problem solved once again.

As far as attacks on the people behind the companies, the people behind the companies make their own attacks on other peoples autographs on a daily basis and do so with no evidence, proof or explanation while hiding behind their curtain. If someone chooses to attack back in the open in a forum with evidence, proof and explanation then that is something they can blame on themselves.

Seems like some of the boxing guys aren't one to fall into place and feed into all the bullsh*t like so many others. Tone it down or turn it up? I choose the latter.

[cubsfan-budman]

I really don't understand why Travis isn't one of the more respected guys on this board. He has a somewhat acidic tone, but in essence, he's correct in his indictments.

I mean, only a couple threads from here, MANY Net45'ers were jumping on a guy for leveraging the ABCs to attempt to sell a (mostly) outed fake.

I think two things are happening here:

1. People are turned off by Travis' tone and persistence
2. People actually enjoy his posts because they continue to not ignore him

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I really don't understand why Travis isn't one of the more respected guys on this board. He has a somewhat acidic tone, but in essence, he's correct in his indictments.

I mean, only a couple threads from here, MANY Net45'ers were jumping on a guy for leveraging the ABCs to attempt to sell a (mostly) outed fake.

I think two things are happening here:

1. People are turned off by Travis' tone and persistence
2. People actually enjoy his posts because they continue to not ignore him

It's not for what he posts about PSA & JSA...those things are warranted, helpful, mostly true and appreciated by most. I like that he is passionate about it. It just chafes my fat fanny that he can endorse with his silence and weak analogies an obvious smear campaign on a a ONE WAY BASHING website about another contributor here with a different viewpoint. It's grotesque and weak.

We fight forgeries here. That's what we do...All kinds of forgeries. Blinders Boy and his pals have taken it to another level and it's just very disheartening for the contributors here, IMHO.

[packs]

Originally Posted by toybulldog

Then they should use the bozo filter on you, problem solved once again.

As far as attacks on the people behind the companies, the people behind the companies make their own attacks on other peoples autographs on a daily basis and do so with no evidence, proof or explanation while hiding behind their curtain. If someone chooses to attack back in the open in a forum with evidence, proof and explanation then that is something they can blame on themselves.

Seems like some of the boxing guys aren't one to fall into place and feed into all the bullsh*t like so many others. Tone it down or turn it up? I choose the latter.

I have nothing against what you're saying. But it seems like you are being contrarian about all this. Why can't the person acknowledge their behavior and at least attempt to make a change in it?

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by packs

I have nothing against what you're saying. But it seems like you are being contrarian about all this. When does someone have a right to complain about another person's behavior? Is the answer always to just ignore it? Why can't the person acknowledge their behavior and at least attempt to make a change in it? Reading your posts it seems like you're suggesting the people complaining are the only ones with a problem and they should be quiet about it.

More or less what I was contemplating how to say, but if I may expand upon it:

I don't think it's so much that people have a problem with what Travis posts. It's clear that he has an agenda, and if you refresh the screen a couple of times, he has probably posted again explaining his agenda with another string of analogies. The thing that ticks me and many others off is the constant thrusting of that agenda/rant into every single topic he stumbles into, whether his post is actually related to the discussion at hand or not. And then when anyone suggests, "Hey, chill, nobody's talking about TPA's here," rather than accepting the suggestion that what he just posted is out of place in this thread and should be taken elsewhere or to a new thread, he takes it as a sign that everyone's trying to shut him up because he's onto something big or they feel threatened by him or they have an agenda that conflicts with his own, etc., and starts typing all the more fervently. Maybe I've overlooked it, but I can't recall a single time where someone has said, "Hey, that's out of place here, take it to another thread," and Travis has done so. It's like I tell my boys, "When we tell you to be quiet, it's because the adults are having a conversation, not because we don't like kids." Travis has been asked repeatedly to take his TPA-bashing rants to either a new thread or at least to other threads already discussing TPA's, and he consistently insists on ignoring the requests and continues thrusting his agenda into the same unrelated conversations.

Bottom line for me is, while I wouldn't advocate booting Travis from the board, I do wish there was a way to boot him from individual threads when he busts in with unrelated ranting. Absent that, I wish that Travis could take a hint, a suggestion, or a sincere direct request to heart without twisting it into an anti-Travis/pro-TPA conspiracy.

And yes, the irony of my post here appearing in a thread that Travis started to bash TPA's does not escape me.

Lance F!ttro

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by packs

I have nothing against what you're saying. But it seems like you are being contrarian about all this. Why can't the person acknowledge their behavior and at least attempt to make a change in it?

Is there a reason that "packs" can talk an unbelievable amount of crap and not have to attach his name to his posts?

[packs]

I'm not talking crap on anyone. I'm venting my frustration about threads like this one. I haven't mentioned anyone by name and I haven't passed a judgement or insulted anyone.