The "Exclusive 12" of the T205 set

[Ease]

Another top bottom miscut that I do not own. Camnitz.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by Ease

Another top bottom miscut that I do not own.

Can't see it??

[familytoad]

I think that there were supposed to be many more T205 Gold Borders.
Obviously the backs indicate that there should be potentially 400.
It is likely that many of the unissued cards were to be minor leaguers.
Some here noted the red nameplate for Hanford.
The border is unique for Hanford because he is on a different team than the other mL players. There would be more Jersey City players with that design if they issued them, which appears unlikely by now.
The company likely created that border for JC team, anticipating issuing several other players.
It just seems like an unfinished project to me, nothing more.

This set is the best of all of them in my opinion, I wish they had finished it.

[EvilKing00]

interesting, its red cause hes on NJ, and like you said they probably were going to do more from that team but didnt finish.

When you say "Obviously the backs indicate that there should be potentially 400"

Why do you think this?

[tedzan]

In a previous thread on T205's, Andrew (T205 GB) posted his theory regarding the "400 DESIGNS" printed on the backs of the T205's......

"I have had a theory that the T80 and T42 series were part of the "T205's" or Gold Boarder's thus adding to the 400 designs. That would add 150 more designs to the 220+
cards in the t205 set. That would take the total to 370 without considering any variations possible for these sets that are unknown. Back designs are similar also, especially
the Sweet Caporal backs. Knowing that Mecca produced the T202 cards using the T205 designs as end panels in 1912 makes it possibly plausible since the T80 and 42's are
found with Mecca backs also and were produced just after. Kinda like the 1880's A&G Series cards."


This sounds like quite a plausible explanation for the "400 DESIGNS" to me.


TED Z

[Ease]

Originally Posted by tedzan

In a previous thread on T205's, Andrew (T205 GB) posted his theory regarding the "400 DESIGNS" printed on the backs of the T205's......

"I have had a theory that the T80 and T42 series were part of the "T205's" or Gold Boarder's thus adding to the 400 designs. That would add 150 more designs to the 220+
cards in the t205 set. That would take the total to 370 without considering any variations possible for these sets that are unknown. Back designs are similar also, especially
the Sweet Caporal backs. Knowing that Mecca produced the T202 cards using the T205 designs as end panels in 1912 makes it possibly plausible since the T80 and 42's are
found with Mecca backs also and were produced just after. Kinda like the 1880's A&G Series cards."


This sounds like quite a plausible explanation for the "400 DESIGNS" to me.


TED Z

Sounds plausible to me also, other than the t80s with mecca backs part, I think they come in tolstoi, uzit, cairo monopol, old mill & lenox only.

[EvilKing00]

Interesting, could be possable. The T80 are almost exact - and check this one out - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-T80-Tob...item416a62139d

Have the red back of the name like in the, Hanford card

[Tcards-Please]

Originally Posted by tedzan

In a previous thread on T205's, Andrew (T205 GB) posted his theory regarding the "400 DESIGNS" printed on the backs of the T205's......

"I have had a theory that the T80 and T42 series were part of the "T205's" or Gold Boarder's thus adding to the 400 designs. That would add 150 more designs to the 220+
cards in the t205 set. That would take the total to 370 without considering any variations possible for these sets that are unknown. Back designs are similar also, especially
the Sweet Caporal backs. Knowing that Mecca produced the T202 cards using the T205 designs as end panels in 1912 makes it possibly plausible since the T80 and 42's are
found with Mecca backs also and were produced just after. Kinda like the 1880's A&G Series cards."


This sounds like quite a plausible explanation for the "400 DESIGNS" to me.


TED Z

Ted,

Definitely sounds plausible, but have reservations about that, as the T80s weren't distributed with the same tobacco companies that had the T205s. I would think that if they were going to be part, they would have been available with the same advertisement as their counterpart. Especially if they were to be included with the 400 design count.

I'm a believer that there was supposed to be additional cards added during a later run. Nothing to prove that, just my opinion.

r/
Frank

[Wite3]

I still think that it is an unfinished series. I am no expert here and maybe someone who has a little better grasp of the tobacco history might be able to fill in some gaps.

We know t205s were most likely distributed at the end of 1911...one really large thing happened during this time. The ATC breakup happened in November of 1911.

This could have affected several things with relation to printing of the t205s.

Here are some ideas of mine...if anybody can confirm or deny, please help...

1st. When the ATC broke up the ATC consolidated its holdings in NC, VA, and KY. These are where the Hassan cards were printed and if I recall, Hassan was a brand that remained with the ATC.

2nd. Polar Bear was to become part of the Lorillard Tobacco company after the split.

I was wondering if the Polar Bear and Hassan ML cards were printed prior to the breakup (fronts) and issued and packed before the breakup was finalized. These being the last of the t205s issued. If the breakup never happened...would the 400 designs promise be upheld?

Just wondering what impact the breakup had on this issue that was clearly produced right in the middle of the ATC anti-trust suit.

Joshua

[marcdelpercio]

Originally Posted by T's please

Ted,

Definitely sounds plausible, but have reservations about that, as the T80s weren't distributed with the same tobacco companies that had the T205s. I would think that if they were going to be part, they would have been available with the same advertisement as their counterpart. Especially if they were to be included with the 400 design count.

I'm a believer that there was supposed to be additional cards added during a later run. Nothing to prove that, just my opinion.

r/
Frank

I would tend to agree more with this. It seems strange that they would have made something they considered to be a single set, but with completely different ad backs for the non-baseball cards. For example, the T58 (fish) cards, which were issued concurrently with the T206 set AND featured some of the same ad backs, were clearly not intended to be the same set, so I don't understand the logic of combining baseball and bird/military cards as a single series the following year. Also, the text "Base Ball Series 400 Subjects" as listed on certain ad-backs of T205s certainly makes it sound like there were 400 intended baseball subjects which just never happened for some reason.

[tbob]

Wasn't Shoeless Joe's first full season 1911? If there were T205s issued early 1912 doesn't it seem logical that a guy batting .400 the season before would be included in the set? So, maybe there were other T205s planned for early 1912 along with the minor leaguers...

[Cerberus]

Bob:

They didn't want to put an "X" for Joe's facsimile autograph on the front of the T205. That's why he wasn't included in the set


Michael

[Wite3]

Actually, I recall another explanation for the lack of Shoeless Joe and other A's stars of the time on another thread from several years ago. Something about a caramel company and player rights. Can't remember the exact thread...anybody else remember this?

Joshua

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Actually, I recall another explanation for the lack of Shoeless Joe and other A's stars of the time on another thread from several years ago. Something about a caramel company and player rights. Can't remember the exact thread...anybody else remember this?

Joshua

Joshua

I think you are alluding to my "Plank theory" thread in 2006, when I proposed a theory to try to explain why Plank was yanked....and, certain Phila A's players
(including Joe Jackson) did not appear in the 1st series of the T206 set......http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...y+plank+theory

More recently, I have attributed the removal of Plank from the T206 set due to the fact that he was a strong anti-tobacco guy.


Hey guys,

Regarding your linkage of T207's as an extention of the T205's....I have always suspected that the T207 cards were not produced by American Lithographic.
The printing style of the T207's is not typical of American Litho.

Furthermore, the lack of the usual T206 subjects in the T207 set makes me more suspicious that ATC contracted out this project to some other printing firm.

Anyhow, that's my thinking regarding T207's....I would be very interested in your's ?


TED Z