Enough with the hostility...

[itjclarke]

I also agree with OP. I probably haven't been involved enough to get caught in the middle of any of the agressive, hostile, or condescending posts/threads.. but am pretty taken aback by some of them. I especially feel bad for some of the newer board members (I fall into that category) that have an honest question, but get hammered.. a recent thread about authenticity of a T206, and other about the oil pianting come to mind. It would be a bummer if people just trying to learn or get feedback become less likely to post their questions. Everyone one was a beginner at some point, and a lot of things that are obvious to many are not to others. For me, it's a hobby, it's for fun.. I do not really understand where all the ego and attitude fit into it.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I also agree with OP. I probably haven't been involved enough to get caught in the middle of any of the agressive, hostile, or condescending posts/threads.. but am pretty taken aback by some of them. I especially feel bad for some of the newer board members (I fall into that category) that have an honest question, but get hammered.. a recent thread about authenticity of a T206, and other about the oil pianting come to mind. It would be a bummer if people just trying to learn or get feedback become less likely to post their questions. Everyone one was a beginner at some point, and a lot of things that are obvious to many are not to others. For me, it's a hobby, it's for fun.. I do not really understand where all the ego and attitude fit into it.

I was a part of the oil painting thread and can give you specific reasons for my post. The auctioneer who started the thread, in my opinion, seems to hype auctions even more than the usual. It wasn't a bad thing, again in my opinion, to chop down the idea that it was somehow a prominent painting of Cy Young. I could already see the auction description in my head.

I agree that the board seems more aggressive than usuall, but I think it has a lot to do with the large influx of new members getting defensive and taking things too personally. Some people used to find some of the sarcasm funny. I did. The personal attacks are getting a bit out of hand but I think it has a lot to do with misunderstanding, followed by a subsequent snow ball effect.

-Matt

[HRBAKER]

I agree that the board seems more aggressive than usuall, but I think it has a lot to do with the large influx of new members getting defensive and taking things too personally. Some people used to find some of the sarcasm funny. I did. The personal attacks are getting a bit out of hand but I think it has a lot to do with misunderstanding, followed by a subsequent snow ball effect.

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

To paraphrase Chairman Mao, card collecting is not a tea party. Nothing wrong with a little ego and attitude in my opinion.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To paraphrase Chairman Mao, card collecting is not a tea party. Nothing wrong with a little ego and attitude in my opinion.

Ha, maybe it bit naive of me.. There's probably a fair amount of room for ego in just about anything from politics to picking fruit. I guess I just don't derive any of my ego from cards... This being greatly aided by the fact that NO one else in my immediate circle collects, so I'm generally alone in this thing.

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I was a part of the oil painting thread and can give you specific reasons for my post. The auctioneer who started the thread, in my opinion, seems to hype auctions even more than the usual. It wasn't a bad thing, again in my opinion, to chop down the idea that it was somehow a prominent painting of Cy Young. I could already see the auction description in my head.
-Matt

Sorry, I may have jumped the gun a little to use that example, since I clearly don't know the whole story behind your's or maybe others' comments on that thread. I guess in general (any thread/post) what stands out to me more are the times when it seems responders are just piling on someone. Especially when it's someone causing no harm or foul to anyone else. Another instance comes to mind, a guy simply asking for something and gets 7-8 smart ass comments back. Maybe it's an empty request, and I've got no problem with sarcasm and good humor (I love the Judd Apatow/Seth Rogan movies as much as the next guy). In my mind the first and 2nd are harmless, maybe even funny, but the 5th, 6th and on get old, especially when saying basically the same thing. But worse, the 5th, 6th and 7th make some guy feel like he's swimming in a sea of sharks. Whether the responders are right or not, I think there's no need to keep kicking someone while down.

[midwaylandscaping]

I spend more time reading than posting, but I think Leon does a good job. I see no more hostility here than some other boards I read also. Be it comic book or a card related board.
Also the only board I would use to seek opinions / advice if I ever decided to jump into pre-war collecting.
Positives on this board by far outweigh the negatives.

[wazoo]

Great responses everyone! All of you bring up very valid points. I believe someone mentioned something about the comments in a new member's post. It is true that some of the comments can be rude and not very accepting. I can thank everyone for being very kind when I was new to the board, but that's not always the case for other members who just joined. Just my two cents.

[wazoo]

And I'm not trying to play it as like it's a perfect world of course!

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I also agree with OP. I probably haven't been involved enough to get caught in the middle of any of the agressive, hostile, or condescending posts/threads.. but am pretty taken aback by some of them. I especially feel bad for some of the newer board members (I fall into that category) that have an honest question, but get hammered.. a recent thread about authenticity of a T206, and other about the oil pianting come to mind. It would be a bummer if people just trying to learn or get feedback become less likely to post their questions. Everyone one was a beginner at some point, and a lot of things that are obvious to many are not to others. For me, it's a hobby, it's for fun.. I do not really understand where all the ego and attitude fit into it.

+1...well said, Ian.

I feel the same way about things. Some of these new guys get "jumped" when they post questions. I understand that to some of us the answer is clear as day, but to people that just joined and venturing into the hobby and pre-war, it's like learning a new language. All we can ask is for everyone to be a little patient and take a step back and evaluate.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

+1...well said, Ian.

I feel the same way about things. Some of these new guys get "jumped" when they post questions.

Mike, it's not just the dumb questions - in some cases it's any questions or comments whatsoever - when I re-joined the hobby after a long hiatus, I found 'new' guys here who had joined while I was gone, and who seemed to have a need to 'protect their turf.' It takes a while to work past those people, and I can promise you they are paying no attention to this thread. If I thought they were, I wouldn't be posting this.

Edited to clarify: The 'new' guys I'm talking about are people who established themselves as board veterans while I was gone. Basically, newbies turn into oldies and some of them eventually become part of the problem - this should be obvious, but thought I would clarify. Also, it's good to keep such perspective when you join a new forum and feel like you are getting beaten up - remember that one day you'll be an old established guy and should treat the next generation of new guys better than you were treated.

[wazoo]

Thanks guys! Really, it means a lot to have a welcoming board. You guys were so nice to me, and still are, so I just want to make sure the tradition continues for the other guys. I know, I can't believe it either, but my year anniversary will be coming up in a few months, so time really flies when you're having fun. Best regards guys.

[E93]

I think it is a lot easier to be aggressive when hiding behind a keyboard. Some people just get a rush from it. It happens far less frequently when people have actually met each other face-to-face. Of course not everyone can get to the Net54 dinner at the National, but those sorts of things help for keeping things civil. It would be good if we would all put a little thought into the most skillful way to put things when they are potentially contentious or conflict-inducing.

Credit goes to Wazoo, but it should be humbling that it takes a 16 year old to bring this conversation up.
JimB

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by E93

I think it is a lot easier to be aggressive when hiding behind a keyboard. Some people just get a rush from it. It happens far less frequently when people have actually met each other face-to-face. Of course not everyone can get to the Net54 dinner at the National, but those sorts of things help for keeping things civil. It would be good if we would all put a little thought into the most skillful way to put things when they are potentially contentious or conflict-inducing.

Credit goes to Wazoo, but it should be humbling that it takes a 16 year old to bring this conversation up.
JimB

It's interesting you should bring this up - I could not agree more.

I was just talking with a board member on the phone, who was upset with someone. I told him that once you see someone face-to-face, it is if they are a completely different person, and it's almost impossible to still feel the same dislike you felt for the 'guy on the internet'. I highly recommend meeting people face-to-face, especially the ones that you feel resentment toward because of internet interactions.

[ethicsprof]

I do think that it is very difficult to ameliorate hostility without some measure of self-awareness accompanied by compassion for the other. The lack of a balanced self-awareness often yields egocentricity which is a breeding ground for hostility. Typically, when we engage others on the board so as to satisfy our own self-aggrandizement, we are inclined to hurt whoever or whatever breaches the boundaries of our arenas of 'kingship'. When we engage others for reasons of collegiality and hopes for the enlivening and enlargement of communities of learning, we operate most frequently with openness and a desire to create the common good, not just our own egoistic 'good'. My hope is for an engendering
of balanced awareness and the common good---in all of us.
all the best,
barry

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

I do think that it is very difficult to ameliorate hostility without some measure of self-awareness accompanied by compassion for the other. The lack of a balanced self-awareness often yields egocentricity which is a breeding ground for hostility. Typically, when we engage others on the board so as to satisfy our own self-aggrandizement, we are inclined to hurt whoever or whatever breaches the boundaries of our arenas of 'kingship'. When we engage others for reasons of collegiality and hopes for the enlivening and enlargement of communities of learning, we operate most frequently with openness and a desire to create the common good, not just our own egoistic 'good'. My hope is for an engendering
of balanced awareness and the common good---in all of us.
all the best,
barry

That makes me want to do this...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

I do think that it is very difficult to ameliorate hostility without some measure of self-awareness accompanied by compassion for the other. The lack of a balanced self-awareness often yields egocentricity which is a breeding ground for hostility. Typically, when we engage others on the board so as to satisfy our own self-aggrandizement, we are inclined to hurt whoever or whatever breaches the boundaries of our arenas of 'kingship'. When we engage others for reasons of collegiality and hopes for the enlivening and enlargement of communities of learning, we operate most frequently with openness and a desire to create the common good, not just our own egoistic 'good'. My hope is for an engendering
of balanced awareness and the common good---in all of us.
all the best,
barry

I couldn't have said it better Barry. Actually, I couldn't have said it....period.

[E93]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

I do think that it is very difficult to ameliorate hostility without some measure of self-awareness accompanied by compassion for the other. The lack of a balanced self-awareness often yields egocentricity which is a breeding ground for hostility. Typically, when we engage others on the board so as to satisfy our own self-aggrandizement, we are inclined to hurt whoever or whatever breaches the boundaries of our arenas of 'kingship'. When we engage others for reasons of collegiality and hopes for the enlivening and enlargement of communities of learning, we operate most frequently with openness and a desire to create the common good, not just our own egoistic 'good'. My hope is for an engendering
of balanced awareness and the common good---in all of us.
all the best,
barry

I nominate Barry as the official Net 54 philosopher! Well said my friend.
JimB

[Rickyy]

I usually glance and drive past the hostility and on towards card pictures and information... it allows me to come here relaxed and leave the same way!

Ricky Y

[triwak]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

For me, it's a hobby, it's for fun.. I do not really understand where all the ego and attitude fit into it.

My sentiments exactly! I know we all compete with each other when it comes to bidding on items at auction. But these competitions about: "Who has the best collection?" or "Who has the most knowledge about a certain card set?" or "Who can come up with the snarkiest jab to a new collector?"... well, to me it demonstrates someone trying overcompensate for something. Total nerdville!

[Matthew H]

In all of the new member introduction threads, I can't recall a single snarky comment. I guess I'm just not seeing what others are...

Ken, as far as "total nerdville"... Ummmmmm, we collect baseball cards. Easily the least nerdiest thing on the planet. In fact I heard they're writing James Bond's baseball card collection into the next 007 flick

[triwak]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Ken, as far as "total nerdville"... Ummmmmm, we collect baseball cards. Easily the least nerdiest thing on the planet. In fact I heard they're writing James Bond's baseball card collection into the next 007 flick

+1

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Ken, as far as "total nerdville"... Ummmmmm, we collect baseball cards.

Originally Posted by triwak

+1

+another here.. nothing makes me feel nerdier than laying my cards out on the coffee table.. And I have completely embraced it!!

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

+another here.. nothing makes me feel nerdier than laying my cards out on the coffee table.. And I have completely embraced it!!

That's awesome.

It's good that the rest of the world doesn't know what they're missing. There really isn't enough to go around.

[teetwoohsix]

Great post Wazoo.

I understand that many board members go way back (I refer to them as "veterans") and maybe it's hard for (some) of the veteran collectors to accept new collectors. I've read posts over the time I've been on Net54 talking about "the good old days of the old board" and I've noticed collectors that used to post all of the time when I joined sort of fade off of the board , and now only make a rare appearance.

I've often wondered, what made the old board "better" for these collectors? I say that because when I joined, you had the same exact things going on as you have now..occaisional spats, threads about cards, lots of knowledge sharing, talk of auction houses and ebay, the monthly pick up thread, etc.. I mean, other than more people joining and participating, what is different for the veterans?

I'll admit that it's hard to know whether something is said in a sarcastic way, or if that's just the posters regular personality; I often wonder if I word my posts right. I think sometimes when I question certain veteran collectors, they take it as an "attack", when in reality I am just asking a question. Then, my question may be ignored (that's fine) or I may be met with a condescending (sp?) remark (which is fine as well, but I may respond likewise ). Communication breakdown

I recently read the thread where Steve K. said he was banned, and to this day I don't know what that was all about, but it was pretty unsettling to me. He's always seemed like a decent guy to me, but was getting hammered in that thread. Maybe there's a story there I don't know about, but I figured that type of treatment would be reserved for someone who rips someone off, or something of that nature.

I'm all for making Net54 a better place, and enjoyable for everyone-from veterans to new collectors. It is really all about the love of cards, and the joy of collecting, and learning as much as possible. Peace.

Sincerely, Clayton