Let the bidding frenzy begin......

[Leon]

The one thing I hope members take away from this thread, is the fact that there really can't be a rule about outing, other than it's against the rules to out your own auction, or conspire with someone to do it for one of theirs. At this stage in our forum I think (I could be wrong) most of our rules, or instances of no-rules, are sound. That being said the best way to stay current is to always entertain other ideas. There has to be a better mousetrap!! (well, maybe)

[cubsfan-budman]

In a practical sense, I only see positives from outing an auction, as long as its adhering to Leon's rules (i.e. don't out your own auctions):

1. The seller got the price that they deserved
2. The buyer got a card they wanted (that they may not have known about)
3. Other bidders didn't get the card, but they also didn't spend $10.6k

So, its "wins" all around in my opinion

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

...So, its "wins" all around in my opinion

I dunno, ask the guy that paid 10.6k if he would have preferred it be outed or not.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by Leon

I dunno, ask the guy that paid 10.6k if he would have preferred it be outed or not.

Indeed. Maybe he didn't know about it until it got outed?

Also, it's been mentioned in another thread and seemed to get pretty unanimous support: don't bid more than you're willing to spend.

Pretty good rule of thumb.

Finally, why is the buyer more important than the seller? Everyone is concentrating on what a great deal COULD have been had on this card. Isn't the seller entitled to getting what the card is worth?

Again, assuming the buyer didn't go into debt or something to buy the card, everyone got an equitable deal here.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

Indeed. Maybe he didn't know about it until it got outed?

Also, it's been mentioned in another thread and seemed to get pretty unanimous support: don't bid more than you're willing to spend.

Pretty good rule of thumb.

Finally, why is the buyer more important than the seller? Everyone is concentrating on what a great deal COULD have been had on this card. Isn't the seller entitled to getting what the card is worth?

Again, assuming the buyer didn't go into debt or something to buy the card, everyone got an equitable deal here.

Hey, there is a reason there is no rule. I am just saying, if I were the buyer I would prefer not to have thousands of unnecessary collectors looking at what I am bidding on and talking about it. It probably did work out better for the seller. Of course the seller is entitled to every penny he can get....but it is his/her responsibility to get the most for it, not ours. I will reiterate, these are all reasons there is no rule. Happy collecting....

[ullmandds]

This is getting kinda old...but...in this case the buyer did not do his due diligence on selling the card...he did not assign an acc designation to it...did not mention the manufacturer/maker of the card...his description was vague and therefore he did not deserve full value...in my opinion. It is not the buyers job to market and promote someone elses auction.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

This is getting kinda old...but...in this case the buyer did not do his due diligence on selling the card...he did not assign an acc designation to it...did not mention the manufacturer/maker of the card...his description was vague and therefore he did not deserve full value...in my opinion. It is not the buyers job to market and promote someone elses auction.

Love the attitude. "If you don't know what you have, you *deserve* to get taken advantage of!".

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks for the reply David.

I totally understand where you are coming from, and agree on some points. In your scenario though, you knew about the cards for a couple of years. In my scenario, the 24 hour auction is already underway.

I get the points about someone doing a lot of combing through ebay (you say this is the hard work) and finding a possible steal-and then someone else outs the auction, and you are now competing with many instead of a few- but,even if you are only competeing with a few, you still may get blown out of the water by one of those few having deep pockets-thus, your hard work doesn't give you any reward, only frustration. There's no guarantee either way that you will win the card.

As far as PM'ing board members- I'm sure this happens all of the time. I may not have an interest in a card, for whatever means- but, may PM another member who I think may want it- is this wrong? You are saying I should just buy the card, and offer it to him myself?

I think where you lose me is when you say if the person doesn't do the work, for any reason, they should not have a shot at the card. I say this because (keep in mind, 24 hour auction) somepeople work 8,10,12 hours a day-then, they come home and deal with wife and kids, etc- maybe don't have the time to scour pages of ebay etc. But, they work hard in life and would love to spend their hard earned money on this card in the 24 hour auction. I think that person should have as much of a chance to buy the card as the person sitting on ebay all day with the time to scour the pages....after all, ebay is open to everyone nationwide.

In another post, you kind of described two types of people, one who didn't have the time to search, and one who is lazy. Of course no one wants the lazy person to win but unfortunately ebay auctions don't work that way-it's all about who is willing to spend the most money-period.

No one in life wants to feel that the reward of all of their hard work will be reaped by someone else. But I guess to me when looking at cards/hobby I don't equate it with a grueling 10 hour day at work (I know some people here who sell will disagree with that statement ) - meaning, a hobby should be fun, not some cut throat "I found it first, F everyone else, too bad for them they didn't find it, it's ALL MIIINNNEEE" type of thing.

Anyhow- I've never outed an auction. But, truth be known, I don't really care. I've just found this to be an interesting thread where it comes down to ethics and morals, and seeing where people agree and disagree.

Thanks again for the reply-

Sincerely, Clayton

[ullmandds]

I think where you lose me is when you say if the person doesn't do the work, for any reson, they should not have a shot at the card. I say this because (keep in mind, 24 hour auction) somepeople work 8,10,12 hours a day-then, they come home and deal with wife and kids, etc- maybe don't have the time to scour pages of ebay etc. But, they work hard in life and would love to spend their hard earned money on this card in the 24 hour auction. I think that person should have as much of a chance to buy the card as the person sitting on ebay all day with the time to scour the pages....after all, ebay is open to everyone nationwide.

This argument makes no sense to me at all?!?! If someone works 10-12-whatever hours/day and then has to tend to their wife and/or kids...this is the life they have chosen. If one chooses to go to the gym for 4 hours after working every day and as a result doesn't take the time to scour ebay for deals on vintage bb cards...why the hell should they reap the rewards of someone who puts in the time? Makes absolutely no sense!

pete

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I think where you lose me is when you say if the person doesn't do the work, for any reson, they should not have a shot at the card. I say this because (keep in mind, 24 hour auction) somepeople work 8,10,12 hours a day-then, they come home and deal with wife and kids, etc- maybe don't have the time to scour pages of ebay etc. But, they work hard in life and would love to spend their hard earned money on this card in the 24 hour auction. I think that person should have as much of a chance to buy the card as the person sitting on ebay all day with the time to scour the pages....after all, ebay is open to everyone nationwide.

This argument makes no sense to me at all?!?! If someone works 10-12-whatever hours/day and then has to tend to their wife and/or kids...this is the life they have chosen. If one chooses to go to the gym for 4 hours after working every day and as a result doesn't take the time to scour ebay for deals on vintage bb cards...why the hell should they reap the rewards of someone who puts in the time? Makes absolutely no sense!

pete

Yeah you are right-they deserve NOTHING. To hell with them and the life they "chose".

And, what's "putting in time"? You assume it took hours and hours to find the card. What if the person found the card in 3 seconds of searching?

It's not an argument, by the way- I presented a hypothetical question and got an answer. I responded, no one is arguing.

Sincerely, Clayton