FAKE packs and an FBI Fraud Investigation: What would YOU do?

[markf31]

Originally Posted by DavidG1966

This is exactly why I am seeking opinions on what to do. My advise from PSA and StarPaxMan was to just sell them. How can I do that?

You can't. I implore you to talk to a lawyer. Any advice you receive on here will be in the same vein I believe.

[travrosty]

did the authentication company blow it again? well, that's just greaaaat, as elaine benis would say.

thats what people get for trusting them. they should be liable for all of this. if you have fake packs that a company certified, then go back to them for restitution.

[egbeachley]

First response is probably the best response.

It would seem to me that the vast majority of the packs, possibly all of them, would be fake. And I expect that eventually the pack creator will tell investigators just that or may know exactly which ones. At that point they can be sent back to the grading company for the guaranty. So hold on to the packs for now.

I also think this thread should be deleted....or redacted

[Griffins]

From what I understand this investigation and alleged fraud centered almost solely around '70's cello packs, many of them showing star cards on the top and often bottom.

[atx840]

Shhhh.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by atx840

Shhhh.

What up, Jose?

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

what up, jose?

lol !!

[pepis]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

What up, Jose?

Everything is de-mundo-bueno Keith.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by Griffins

From what I understand this investigation and alleged fraud centered almost solely around '70's cello packs, many of them showing star cards on the top and often bottom.

Actually Anthony,
it involves some 60s and 80s also all with stars on top and all with clear
evidence of being tampered with, in a way that should never get by an
expert, some of those stars should never be on top like for example
1979 Thrman Munson his card ony came in the bottom section and a
true expert should know that

[Runscott]

.....nevuh mind

[queencitysportscards]

...

[CW]

Originally Posted by pepis

Actually Anthony,
it involves some 60s and 80s also all with stars on top and all with clear
evidence of being tampered with, in a way that should never get by an
expert, some of those stars should never be on top like for example
1979 Thrman Munson his card ony came in the bottom section and a
true expert should know that

Um, is this the accused fake pack creator making these statements in this thread? Of so.... um, wow.

[CharleyBrown]

Wow,

If I remember some of the threads on the PSA boards, this guy was flaunting packs with Mantle on top, etc. - he had a killer collection, or so he made everyone believe he did...

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by CW

Um, is this the accused fake pack creator making these statements in this thread? Of so.... um, wow.

There seems to be a lot more to this story. Tell us more pepis.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by pepis

Actually Anthony,
it involves some 60s and 80s also all with stars on top and all with clear
evidence of being tampered with, in a way that should never get by an
expert, some of those stars should never be on top like for example
1979 Thrman Munson his card ony came in the bottom section and a
true expert should know that

here is the example.

[Matthew H]

I heard there's some greedy people in this hobby... Is that true?

[lsutigers1973]

8) PSA's pack authenticator gave me the list of packs the person had authenticated. I do not know nor did the authenticator tell me which are real or fake.

I doubt very seriously that anyone aware of the situation with possession of a "list" would freely hand it over to anyone without a subpoena.

[36GoudeyMan]

.. and I have to tell you to shut the hell up NOW. Stop talking about what you know; you are jeopardizing the investigation and running into obstruction of justice issues (not liability yet, just issues), plus you are in possession of, and are talking about, confidential investigatory information. SHUT UP.

DO NOT SELL ANY PACKS if you have the slightest bit of concern over their authenticity. NONE. Knowing what you have stated publicly that you already know about the possible authenticity issues surrounding some/all of your packs, selling them now -- without the kind of disclosure that would be needed to insulate you from civil AND criminal liability -- would be ridiculous and personally dangerous, from a legal point of view.

Perhaps you have a civil claim, at this point, I'm not certain. But I can say this categorically: SHUT UP AND DO NOT SELL ANY PACKS. Do not discuss what you know with anyone but the investigators -- not with PSA, not with Steve Hart, NO ONE but the investigators. I join wholeheartedly in the chorus of posters telling you to get your OWN lawyer,not someone you might share with another victim, but your OWN. White collar criminal lawyers abound; you should have no trouble getting a referral from your local Bar or Bar Association if you or a friend does not know one. But get one, sooner rather than later, and talk to him/her immediately.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 36GoudeyMan

.. and I have to tell you to shut the hell up NOW. Stop talking about what you know; you are jeopardizing the investigation and running into obstruction of justice issues (not liability yet, just issues), plus you are in possession of, and are talking about, confidential investigatory information. SHUT UP.

DO NOT SELL ANY PACKS if you have the slightest bit of concern over their authenticity. NONE. Knowing what you have stated publicly that you already know about the possible authenticity issues surrounding some/all of your packs, selling them now -- without the kind of disclosure that would be needed to insulate you from civil AND criminal liability -- would be ridiculous and personally dangerous, from a legal point of view.

Perhaps you have a civil claim, at this point, I'm not certain. But I can say this categorically: SHUT UP AND DO NOT SELL ANY PACKS. Do not discuss what you know with anyone but the investigators -- not with PSA, not with Steve Hart, NO ONE but the investigators. I join wholeheartedly in the chorus of posters telling you to get your OWN lawyer,not someone you might share with another victim, but your OWN. White collar criminal lawyers abound; you should have no trouble getting a referral from your local Bar or Bar Association if you or a friend does not know one. But get one, sooner rather than later, and talk to him/her immediately.

While my instinct and curiosity say different, the above is good advice from an actual lawyer. And while any free advice is worth what you paid I think in this case it's going to be well worth heeding.

The only thing I'd add would be to keep a copy of the list, and save off or print a copy of any communication you get about it.
The Emails etc because documenting stuff probably can't hurt, (Unless it's about stuff you've done) and the list because it may get buried, and there may eventually be an acceptable time to share it. Your lawyer will know that.


Steve B

[cobblove]

This guy seems like a crazy person trying to use this as an attack on steve. Steve does a great job at what he does. And I know everyone agrees who has ever meet to done any kind of deal with steve knows he's 100% honest and fair in his life. Not even a question about his character. Steve is human and Jose has shown that by having the packs authenticated and oked by Steve. Brought to light anything to do with a bogus pack steve will do whatever to make things right. If a few packs got by steve it shouldnt be seen as if Steve did it on purpose.Which is what Jose is saying? Crazy fing guy. Steve is giving an opinion that we all ask for because he shares all his knowledge that he has about this area of the hobby. Everyone makes mistakes and it seems easy to understand a few packs getting by the system. But what I dont get is the individual who started this mess by sending in what he knew were basement made packs just to show that people can make mistakes? And to say that steve did it on purpose is insaine and your character needs to be looked at.

[ALR-bishop]

....do not seek advice on a matter with significant legal implications on a public bulletin board. Get professional attorney client legal advice.