HOF RC Boxing List - WTB and looking for suggestions

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Hi Tom, the Juncosa is not a 1920 release. My best guess would be 1924-1926. I believe they even reference the Carpentier fight on the back.

[Exhibitman]

You answered your own question: if there are quite a few cards predating the ostensible rookie you can only call the card a rookie if you ignore the other issues, and then what's the point? A lot of PCs are ACC-listed and are treated by many as rookies [like that early Cobb PC that's gotten so much action lately] so if you are going to expand the rookie thing to cover a card that was never issued in the USA, why not a PC?

[oldmanvintagecards]

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

Hi Tom, the Juncosa is not a 1920 release. My best guess would be 1924-1926. I believe they even reference the Carpentier fight on the back.

That is actually what I thought because I noticed that it does mention the Carpentier fight on the back. How often are the grading companies so wrong about the dates of boxing cards because I have now purchased 2 cards that I thought were rookie cards because of PSA incorrectly dating them. The first was the 1935, which isnt from 1935, United Tobacco Company Joe Louis and now the Juncosa Dempsey which PSA grades as 1920 even while it talks about a fight that happened in 1921 on the back. This is really frustrating coming from a company like PSA. I guess you cant just trust the.most respected grading.company to do their job properly and not guess.

[Exhibitman]

When it comes to the foreign cards, the TPGs more or less follow the lead of whoever cataloged it first. They don't do independent research. Speaking as a cataloger, sometimes it is really difficult to figure out when a card was issued with any degree of accuracy better than within a few years or a decade. Even well-known sets can have revisions, like the 1933 US Caramel set that was listed as a 1932 set until a careful analysis of the biographies on the cards proved that the issue dated to no earlier than March 1933. I can only imagine how hard it was for the oldtimers to figure out things pre-Internet and pre-Google Translate.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

PSA actually grades the Juncosa as "1920's" but that apostrophe S doesn't fit in the pop report or set registry listings so if you look the card up on their website it just shows it as 1920. The slab itself will say 1920's, however. It's also that way for the Perales ases de la Pantalla, fyi.

Personally, I'm not very concerned with a fighter's "rookie card." I'm not sure there's a single fighter that I wouldn't rather have a dozen or so later issues over whatever the supposed rookie card is. For me, rarity/personal preference > issue date.

[oldmanvintagecards]

A few others that should be changed on this list are:

1. 1919/1920 Underwood and Underwood Jack Dempsey. Adam has another card from 1919 that could also be considered his rookie as well. Both cards predate his Champion rookie and Strip card rookies.
2. 1964 Nestle Los Juegos Olimpicos Joe Frazier - predates his Panini by 3 years
3. 1977-79 Sportscaster Larry Holmes card (Finnish version much more rare and the one to own).-I dont like Sportscasters but they are a legitimate issue and it is 3-5 years before his Panini (and you already used the Sportscaster series for someone else on the list, so you can't start ignoring it now).

There are also at least 2 Swedish Rekord Magazine cards (2 Different 1956 Floyd Pattersons and a 1962 Sonny Liston) that predate the cards you mention on the list. If you are going to count the Hemmets Journal Clay then you have to count these as well.

-Tom

[Exhibitman]

Speaking of early Floyd Patterson pieces, here is a 1953 [newspaper archive dated on back] promotional card of him:



Since he was a 1952 Olympian, this is the earliest card/card-like item of him I've found.

ETA: "Custer" D'Amato. Wow, his parents must've hated him something fierce.

[miklia]

Originally Posted by oldmanvintagecards

A few others that should be changed on this list are:

1. 1919/1920 Underwood and Underwood Jack Dempsey. Adam has another card from 1919 that could also be considered his rookie as well. Both cards predate his Champion rookie and Strip card rookies.
2. 1964 Nestle Los Juegos Olimpicos Joe Frazier - predates his Panini by 3 years
3. 1977-79 Sportscaster Larry Holmes card (Finnish version much more rare and the one to own).-I dont like Sportscasters but they are a legitimate issue and it is 3-5 years before his Panini (and you already used the Sportscaster series for someone else on the list, so you can't start ignoring it now).

There are also at least 2 Swedish Rekord Magazine cards (2 Different 1956 Floyd Pattersons and a 1962 Sonny Liston) that predate the cards you mention on the list. If you are going to count the Hemmets Journal Clay then you have to count these as well.

-Tom

Hi all - greetings, and apologies for the (too long) delay! The list is still a bit of a work in progress, but just a note to say that I agree with all of the three edits mentioned above, and will be correcting the 'master list' accordingly. Regarding the Rekord magazines, unlike the Clay they were not numbered, were not issued as cards, and are not part of a set, so the general consensus thus far as been to exclude those. Again, a hearty thanks to those who have come with suggestions and comments so far. it's been a ton of fun.


And on the personal note, my current WTB list from these cards is below. Anyone have anything available? PSA / SGC / raw all fine.

1887 N174 OLD JUDGE BOB FITZSIMMONS BOB FITZSIMMONS
1890 N310 MAYO CUT PLUG PRIZEFIGHTERS JAMES CORBETT
1901 OGDEN'S LTD. PUGILISTS & WRESTLERS JIM JEFFRIES
1908 RED SUN STANLEY KETCHEL
1915 OGDEN'S LTD. BOXERS JESS WILLARD
1923 W580 HAND CUT GENE TUNNEY
1926 GREILING B&W MAX SCHMELING
1927 GREILING CIGARETTES JACK SHARKEY
1928 W513 TONY CANZONERI
1929 GODFREY PHILIPS PRIMO CARNERA
1948-49 FUTFOL PO-PO/BOXEADORES DISC ARCHIE MOORE
1964 NESTLE JOE FRAZIER

[miklia]

oh, I also forgot to ask - Frazier also has a 1964 Bobbie Card - which would you guys consider the more sought-after card?