OT: Bonds, Clemens, Sosa to be on HOF ballot

[steve B]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

With all due respect, you must not know shit. Ruth did not have an excellent and complete all around game, you're arrogant for that assumption. To hit .342 he didn't need speed. As an earlier poster stated, the fields were deep. Anyone person could generalize Ruth was not fast, as evidenced by his steals and fielding, which you seem lacking to grasp. He had more triples than steals because of the deep fields. If a player hits at a .342 clip and gets on base nearly every other at bat, wouldn't you think they would run?

No Bonds was complete, 500-500. Unreal

You've entirely ignored the other points I made about why Ruth might not have run much.
Especially having Gehrig behind him. Why run and potentially take a run away from yourself?

The era he played wasn't a huge one for running. 1921 one of ruths better years for steals he stole 17 and the Yankees as a team stole 89, about average for that year. This year most AL teams were over 100.

If you are an excellent ballplayer you do know that steals are more about getting a good jump and a good read of the pitcher. There's only ever been a handful of guys where that may not have mattered- Henderson, cloeman, probably a couple more. Brock himself won't credit pure speed.

Steve B
For the record, I only ever made it to modified pitch softball. Probably from a lack of ability to see let alone hit even a lousy fastball. I run like a catcher- A softball catcher.....And I'm damn proud of my 1 career stolen base.
(Two triples too - hey I'm like Babe Ruth!)

[abrahamrudy]

I just can't stand how people have become so self-righteous about steroids, relying on the verdict in the court of public opinion to declare players guilty or innocent. Look, we ALL bear the cross of the steroid era. Nobody here can honestly say that in 1998 they thought Big Mac's popeye arms were real (and if you can, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'm looking to unload for a few t205s). Every one of us was glued to the TV that season, watching every on of his 70 and Sosa's 66. We knew or should have known that they were juicing. We ignored it, just as we had ignored it through the late 80s and the entire 90s, because the baseball highs were worth it- titanic home runs, larger-than-life players, skyrocketing attendance, etc... WE need to own up to the steroid era ourselves. WE need to own up to it because it was US, not Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds who sullied the game. They were just entertainers who gave us what we wanted to see. If WE as a fan base have decided steroids are bad (and I believe they are) then WE have a responsibility to make it right; not by lynching the players who did what we wanted them to do, but by acknowledging what we've done wrong: letting the end product justify everything. An exhibit in the Hall of Fame fully treating the steroid era would be a good start: talk not only about Bonds Clemens Conte and McNamee, but on how we were all involved; the intense media coverage that steroids generated, the home run race, etc.; and on the aftermath as well: Ken Caminiti's untimely death and dangerous abuse of steroids by teenage athletes. Just as gambling once plagued the game, steroids plagued the game, and we need to acknowledge that this problem extended far beyond just the few players who happened to be randomly tested in 2003 before anybody gave a hoot who was juicing.

How does this shake out for Clemens and Bonds? I think they should be in the Hall of Fame. There's no shot that people will forget the allegations that swirl around, especially if the Hall of Fame does the right thing and addresses the steroid era. But to pretend that the all time home run leader didn't exist just because he's been found guilty in a post-hoc trial at the court of public opinion is to do a great disservice to the Hall and to baseball. There is nothing to be gained from guessing which great players are or were on steroids. The evidence record is woefully spotty and almost all concentrated in 2003, as though steroids hadn't been in use for decades prior. Steroid era players should be in the Hall, ceteris paribus, and I think there's a good chance that they will be.

[EvilKing00]

I can see a Block Buster movie in the next 10 years comming out! or at least a made for TV movie, lol

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by abrahamrudy

I just can't stand how people have become so self-righteous about steroids, relying on the verdict in the court of public opinion to declare players guilty or innocent. Look, we ALL bear the cross of the steroid era. Nobody here can honestly say that in 1998 they thought Big Mac's popeye arms were real

Your looking at things through 'post-steroid' eyes.

I guess I for one would have bought your bridge, and I bear no crosses related to drugs and baseball.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Wasn't McGwire's explanation at the time that he was on a supplement? I remember thinking it wasn't particularly credible, but I don't recall caring all that much either.

[packs]

I'll never understand the "we don't know" argument. It's like looking at brown rock painted purple and saying "well maybe it's always been purple."

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Wasn't McGwire's explanation at the time that he was on a supplement? I remember thinking it wasn't particularly credible, but I don't recall caring all that much either.

Yes, you are correct. Here's a link to an article from around that time:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...re_supplement/

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Wasn't McGwire's explanation at the time that he was on a supplement? I remember thinking it wasn't particularly credible, but I don't recall caring all that much either.

yea said he was on Endocrine

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Wasn't McGwire's explanation at the time that he was on a supplement? I remember thinking it wasn't particularly credible, but I don't recall caring all that much either.

Not being into that sort of thing, I didn't ever look for the 'before' pics. I assumed he had just bulked up a bit over the off-season. But I must confess that I thought the same thing about Lenny Dykstra. Maybe it's naiveté, but I just wasn't tying my sport (baseball) to steroid use - it never crossed my mind.

[ullmandds]

Scott...me too...but in hindsight it was naivete on my part...esp when players like brady anderson hits 50 hr's...and Nomar garciopara returns from the offseason all bulked up preaching new training techniques.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Scott...me too...but in hindsight it was naivete on my part...esp when players like brady anderson hits 50 hr's...and Nomar garciopara returns from the offseason all bulked up preaching new training techniques.

When Dykstra came back all bulked up, I remember thinking "WTF?!?", but I figured he had just worked his ass off with the weights. I gotta admit, Sosa made me think something was up - he was just a skinny kid at Texas. But McGwire was a fairly big guy. When he got off the steroids he shrunk back down even further than what he was at Oakland.

Yeah, I was naive.