Marijuana laws- O/T

[Leon]

Originally Posted by SmokyBurgess

Well, the McDonalds thing was a feeble attempt at satire. Never a serious thought.

I base my other observations on 1 Corinthians 6:20.

I am Jewish- side out.

Nothing I have read here about keeping it illegal, to me, makes any sense at all. Go figure. For those that don't want it to be legal, that is your right. And as a democracy we will continue to revise laws as to what most people want, thank God and Bless America. Now back to watching "Reefer Madness".

[barrysloate]

I understand there are a bunch of people who don't like any aspect of making pot legal, and although I support legalization I know where they are coming from. It's not health food, and some people do use it as a crutch.

But one thing to consider is that we've had a war on drugs for decades now, and by any measure it's been an absolute failure. There are more illegal drugs around than there were before the war started. We can't stop the flow into the country, we can't stop people from using them if they want to, and it's a multi-billion dollar illegal business.

Now I'm not suggesting we legalize heroin or cocaine. That would simply kill thousands of people and would be a terrible idea. But legalizing marijuana, while maybe not a perfect solution, may in fact do more good than harm. I know on the surface that might sound crazy, but those who support the legalization do actually believe that. Of course, there will always be detractors and there's no question it will always be a hot button issue.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I understand there are a bunch of people who don't like any aspect of making pot legal, and although I support legalization I know where they are coming from. It's not health food, and some people do use it as a crutch.

But one thing to consider is that we've had a war on drugs for decades now, and by any measure it's been an absolute failure. There are more illegal drugs around than there were before the war started. We can't stop the flow into the country, we can't stop people from using them if they want to, and it's a multi-billion dollar illegal business.

Now I'm not suggesting we legalize heroin or cocaine. That would simply kill thousands of people and would be a terrible idea. But legalizing marijuana, while maybe not a perfect solution, may in fact do more good than harm. I know on the surface that might sound crazy, but those who support the legalization do actually believe that. Of course, there will always be detractors and there's no question it will always be a hot button issue.

+1 Well said again Barry

Steve, I appreciate your well written response, as well as your opinion; the laws you cited on the eastcoast are ridiculous, in my opinion.

And, you are right;I was wrong when I said prohibition created organized crime. But in 1925 Al Capone's gang was pulling in $70,000,000.00 a year from bootleg booze, gambling, and prostitution......and that was in 1925 !!!

Athlete's, with the money they get paid, are expected to be drug free. Plus, kids look up to them as role models; they are held to a higher standard. But, they can still enjoy alchohol, right? I'll never be convinced that marijuana is worse than alchohol. Just look at the statistics, how many deaths per year are attributed to each.

There will always be professions where you can not do the job while under the influence of anything....bus drivers, for example. You couldn't even come to work if you'd had a drink in the last 8 hours. Jobs where people's lives are in your hands.....

I just believe in freedom, that's what it boils down to for me.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Runscott]

Some people work hard and need much-deserved distractions that others might not approve of. Denying an adult a cold beer after a hard day of work should have always been a crime, in my opinion. And if that same person would instead prefer to light up a fatty, then I'll lift my beer while he tokes.

You've got your right to disagree, and you get the same number of votes that I get. Nothing could be more fair.

[attellfan4life]

Can we please make sure my son does not see this thread. I just last month was in the school office cause they found him with his binder and in it had 35 reason this was good for him to smoke. Told him I wish he put this much thought in his school work and not this topic. lol

I too have no problem on it being legal as long as it is an age of at least 18.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by attellfan4life

Can we please make sure my son does not see this thread. I just last month was in the school office cause they found him with his binder and in it had 35 reason this was good for him to smoke. Told him I wish he put this much thought in his school work and not this topic. lol

I too have no problem on it being legal as long as it is an age of at least 18.

LOL....Agreed though. Most people I have seen that are for legalization feel it should be similar to alcohol in most respects. I think 21 yrs of age would be better but would be open to debate.

[mark evans]

I likewise favor legalization and regulation. Not a perfect solution certainly but light-years better than criminalizing smoking at home by adults in my view.

One of my neighbors (and friends) is Keith Stroup, founder of NORML. We've discussed this issue many times and I find his arguments for legalization convincing, not that I was an especially hard sell.

Mark

[SmokyBurgess]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am Jewish- side out.

Nothing I have read here about keeping it illegal, to me, makes any sense at all. Go figure. For those that don't want it to be legal, that is your right. And as a democracy we will continue to revise laws as to what most people want, thank God and Bless America. Now back to watching "Reefer Madness".

My dear Jewish friend Leon,
The O.T. has many warnings about things that impair (mostly drink), but marijuana could certain be substituted very easily.
I can see why the world Biblical view would be at odds with the secular views and I think that is reflected on this post. Not surprising really.
It's never "side out" until your final whistle blows.

[teetwoohsix]

Genesis 1:11
Genesis 1:12
Genesis 1:29

Sincerely, Clayton

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by SmokyBurgess

The O.T. has many warnings about things that impair (mostly drink), but marijuana could certain be substituted very easily.
I can see why the world Biblical view would be at odds with the secular views and I think that is reflected on this post. Not surprising really.

Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I stand with you.

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Genesis 1:11
Genesis 1:12
Genesis 1:29

Sincerely, Clayton

Taking your insinuations that referencing these verses out of context is supposed to mean that God gave us "grass" for our pleasure, I would respond that the vegetation that this thread refers to most likely began in Genesis 3:18 instead.

[packs]

Should be legal. Let's get people out of jail who don't belong, save billions on the taxes we all pay to take care of them, and let's start being a capitalist society again.

The only reason its even illegal is because of that greedy dope Hearst. Seems silly to continue this charade 80 plus years later. It's not ruining anyone's life but the lives the justice system has ruined by labeling them criminals.

Also, I have a medical need and prescription for it here in California. But if I were to take a drug test and fail I could legally be fired and barred from collecting unemployment, even though a medical doctor has prescribed the medication. I can take all the opiates and synthetic heroin I want legally with a prescription and never get fired. But not marijuana? Please.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I stand with you.



Taking your insinuations that referencing these verses out of context is supposed to mean that God gave us "grass" for our pleasure, I would respond that the vegetation that this thread refers to most likely began in Genesis 3:18 instead.

It depends on how you read it. And, I never said God gave us "grass" for our pleasure. So, I don't think I took anything out of context. "Seed bearing plant, seed bearing herb...." I guess everyone is free to determine what that means for themselves, right?

Sincerely, Clayton

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

It depends on how you read it. And, I never said God gave us "grass" for our pleasure. So, I don't think I took anything out of context. "Seed bearing plant, seed bearing herb...." I guess everyone is free to determine what that means for themselves, right?

Sincerely, Clayton

I know you didn't say it, but the insinuation was there. I could keep going, but I don't come here to discuss dope, I come here for the awesome vintage baseball card discussion!

[19cbb]

Dazed and Confused...

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

I know you didn't say it, but the insinuation was there. I could keep going, but I don't come here to discuss dope, I come here for the awesome vintage baseball card discussion!

No problem I look at this conversation more about "freedom" and "liberty", and it's a good talking point- I could care less about dope. But, I'm all for the people having the freedom and liberty to do it, if that's what they want to do with themselves. Same way I feel about just about everything, as long as someone is not hurting someone else in the process.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Leon]

Originally Posted by SmokyBurgess

My dear Jewish friend Leon,
The O.T. has many warnings about things that impair (mostly drink), but marijuana could certain be substituted very easily.
I can see why the world Biblical view would be at odds with the secular views and I think that is reflected on this post. Not surprising really.
It's never "side out" until your final whistle blows.

Comprehension is a dying trend. Side out merely means your turn. Had I said "game over" then your statement would ring true. As I said above, we are in America and eventually what the masses want is what we will do. There is no reasonable answer that I have seen or heard to not legalize given the legality of alcohol, tobacco etc....There are many, many reasons to legalize it and only a few reasons not to. I am not advocating the use of it only the legalization, which makes complete sense to most Americans. I believe it is inevitable and a good thing. God Bless America.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Leon

Comprehension is a dying trend. Side out merely means your turn. Had I said "game over" then your statement would ring true. As I said above, we are in America and eventually what the masses want is what we will do. There is no reasonable answer that I have seen or heard to not legalize given the legality of alcohol, tobacco etc....There are many, many reasons to legalize it and only a few reasons not to. I am not advocating the use of it only the legalization, which makes complete sense to most Americans. I believe it is inevitable and a good thing. God Bless America.

+1

I've enjoyed having a rational discussion about this topic, when we are constantly hearing about a "fiscal cliff" and "job creation" and things of such, I can't help but wonder why we as a nation can't find a middle ground. This is one of those topics that I feel , if done properly, could not only help our economy, create jobs, and at least put a dent in the enormous debt that will not only continue us down this spiral, but also leave too big of a burden on the children (tomorrows future). By no means am I (like Leon) advocating the use of it, but just hoping common sense will begin to make sense at some point.

We must close the divide in this country to work out all of the problems-there has to be a middle ground.

If you care to, read what these people have to say: http://www.leap.cc/

From good people who have been on the front lines of the "war on drugs".

Sincerely, Clayton

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

+1

I've enjoyed having a rational discussion about this topic, when we are constantly hearing about a "fiscal cliff" and "job creation" and things of such, I can't help but wonder why we as a nation can't find a middle ground. This is one of those topics that I feel , if done properly, could not only help our economy, create jobs, and at least put a dent in the enormous debt that will not only continue us down this spiral, but also leave too big of a burden on the children (tomorrows future). By no means am I (like Leon) advocating the use of it, but just hoping common sense will begin to make sense at some point.

We must close the divide in this country to work out all of the problems-there has to be a middle ground.

If you care to, read what these people have to say: http://www.leap.cc/

From good people who have been on the front lines of the "war on drugs".

Sincerely, Clayton

+1

While everyone's looking at job "creation". Why not take a look at job "legitimization" as well. A good place to start would be the strip-clubs. Our government manages to regulate the hell out of the clubs and dancers, based on what they feel are morals, but somehow the dancers themselves have managed to not be taxed, as well as a large portion of these clubs cash income(dancer fees, door charges....) Dancers are "technically" subcontractors instead of employees, which makes it easier for them to hide from the system. Rather than focusing on regulating morals, why not regulate the clubs a little more, so that we can legitimatize these jobs and tax them. Not only will these people begin to show as employed, but it will take away that loophole that has allowed them to both, have jobs, while being able to milk the welfare system...

Now, I'm not saying all dancers are milking the system, but there's definitely a large percentage that is doing so..

[frankbmd]

You have to dance 30 hours a week to get health care.

And if you dance 20 hours a week each at two different strip clubs, you're still not covered. Well I guess we all knew that.

Welcome to part-time USA.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

You have to dance 30 hours a week to get health care.

And if you dance 20 hours a week each at two different strip clubs, you're still not covered. Well I guess we all knew that.

Welcome to part-time USA.

I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not. If it's not. Where is this at? I'm not sure how the clubs are treated in "other" areas of the country. But I know in Ohio they're all treated as sub-contractors to the clubs, giving the clubs the opportunity to basically file as just another bar, while everything else is pretty much shoved under the table.

[MacDice]

I don't think that the money raised by the legalization of pot is going to be as much as people think? It will be taxed at an extremely high rate and the number of locations that it will be available will be limited thus most people are probably not going to buy it through the "legal" outlets. If it stays legal, it will be taxed at 25% in the state of Washington. It will be interesting since it is federal law trumps state law...

[cubsfan-budman]

A parallel topic that came up earlier is how it would be tested for, in the case of DUI/DWI situations, or workplace injury, etc.

As it is now (from what I understand) is that if you're in a workplace accident, they can drug test you and if they find that you've got THC in your system, you're screwed...but the test that they use will detect pot smoked days or weeks earlier. So, while you may not be "under the influence" at the time, you'd still have the detectable residue of your actions days or weeks prior. Alcohol is out of your system in 12 or so hour's time, so the tests of your inebriation are more reliable.

I don't know if there are tests that allow someone to test for inebriation from pot. This seems like something that *I* would want straightened out before I decided to recreationally smoke (or for medical reasons, for that matter). The threat of being punished for "being under the influence" of pot that I smoked 2 weeks ago would be deterrent enough for me.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

A parallel topic that came up earlier is how it would be tested for, in the case of DUI/DWI situations, or workplace injury, etc.

As it is now (from what I understand) is that if you're in a workplace accident, they can drug test you and if they find that you've got THC in your system, you're screwed...but the test that they use will detect pot smoked days or weeks earlier. So, while you may not be "under the influence" at the time, you'd still have the detectable residue of your actions days or weeks prior. Alcohol is out of your system in 12 or so hour's time, so the tests of your inebriation are more reliable.

I don't know if there are tests that allow someone to test for inebriation from pot. This seems like something that *I* would want straightened out before I decided to recreationally smoke (or for medical reasons, for that matter). The threat of being punished for "being under the influence" of pot that I smoked 2 weeks ago would be deterrent enough for me.

Very good points made. And with the legalization would (probably) come millions of dollars for research. I am extremely confident that urine, hair follicle or other tests could be invented to test the THC in one's system and how long it has been there. No, this is not perfect but what we have been doing is a witch hunt, a drain on resources and quite honestly, imho, just plain stupid. It is time for a change, especially when each of the last several presidents have admitted to doing it (though maybe one of them didn't inhale ).