Marijuana laws- O/T

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by SmokyBurgess

(sigh) sad to see our country sliding down so fast...anything goes it seems.

Originally Posted by Leon

I am truly curious why any informed and intelligent person would feel this way? Please help everyone else (here) understand your thinking. It's intriguing.

I agree that it is a sign of sliding (I don't see the McDonald's thing happening since they aren't selling liquor or cigarettes).

Without getting into the debate too much (it isn't what I come to this site for) I will explain my side.

My thinking is when you talk about a sliding down you are talking about the logic that controls the actions of the people making the decision.

Every time someone says they SHOULD legalize it their arguments are one of two (or both):
1: It isn't worse than Alcohol or Tobacco
2: It will raise revenue by taxes and/or cutting down on law enforcement

So both arguments don't actually demonstrate how the actual element being legalized would be helpful to the persons in the society that use it. Yet it just talks about how society as a whole can benefit by those who don't have the willpower to stay away from it.

In the first argument, saying that it isn't worse is the wrong way to look at it. If you think things that are legal are worse than things not illegal, than maybe it would be better to look at making the legal things illegal not vice versa. Marijuana does have health concerns similar to those who smoke, it doesn't have the nicotine, but it has more tar production (http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm).

The second case is just greed over acting logic. We could cut out law enforcement and increase tax if we legalized murder-for-hire also. Yes I know that is an extreme analogy, but it is just an analogy to point out the logic of the argument. If someone is caught with some they are still law breakers non the less. They knew the law, but decided to break it. So if people have a careless outlook on the law for this one subject that says a lot about their ideas of being above the law in other areas as well.

I am going to go back to looking at photos of cards now.

...side note: For those that say it is easy to obtain, it depends on the company you keep. I have no clue where to obtain any. I don't know anyone who openly has that information.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I agree that it is a sign of sliding (I don't see the McDonald's thing happening since they aren't selling liquor or cigarettes).

Without getting into the debate too much (it isn't what I come to this site for) I will explain my side.

My thinking is when you talk about a sliding down you are talking about the logic that controls the actions of the people making the decision.

Every time someone says they SHOULD legalize it their arguments are one of two (or both):
1: It isn't worse than Alcohol or Tobacco
2: It will raise revenue by taxes and/or cutting down on law enforcement

So both arguments don't actually demonstrate how the actual element being legalized would be helpful to the persons in the society that use it. Yet it just talks about how society as a whole can benefit by those who don't have the willpower to stay away from it.

In the first argument, saying that it isn't worse is the wrong way to look at it. If you think things that are legal are worse than things not illegal, than maybe it would be better to look at making the legal things illegal not vice versa. Marijuana does have health concerns similar to those who smoke, it doesn't have the nicotine, but it has more tar production (http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm).

The second case is just greed over acting logic. We could cut out law enforcement and increase tax if we legalized murder-for-hire also. Yes I know that is an extreme analogy, but it is just an analogy to point out the logic of the argument. If someone is caught with some they are still law breakers non the less. They knew the law, but decided to break it. So if people have a careless outlook on the law for this one subject that says a lot about their ideas of being above the law in other areas as well.

I am going to go back to looking at photos of cards now.

...side note: For those that say it is easy to obtain, it depends on the company you keep. I have no clue where to obtain any. I don't know anyone who openly has that information.

Maybe is actually says more about "The Law", then people who do, or do not, think they are above the law.

When it comes down to it, you can conceivably create a law based on any particular lawmakers or segment of the society's pet peeve. In some areas of the world, this is a very common occurrence, sometimes with harrowing consequences.

Sometimes, as they say......."The Law is an Ass".

Many laws are repealed on a regular basis, because they are no longer relevant with our present society...........and you can still google a large number of simply ridiculous laws that are still on the books in many states, but usually never enforced.

It's a constantly evolving thing. Has nothing to do with the sliding of society IMO.

[D. Bergin]

When they first banned hemp production, because of pressure from the lumber industry, I don't think that was a step forward for society, so it's hard to argue the slide back down to me.

[teetwoohsix]

I appreciate where you are coming from Andy, many people feel the way you do.

The alchohol thing. There is no refuting the fact that alchohol has caused numerous hardships on whole communities, which is why they wanted to prohibit it back in the 20's. The people kept drinking and it created a black market, which helped create organized crime. The people were going to drink regardless, and they did. They realized they(the government) would cut the organized crime back out of the picture, regulate it, tax it, and give people the right to decide for themselves if they wanted to drink or not.

I don't drink, but I like the fact that I can if I want to. It doesn't bother me that others drink, hell, I'll buy someone a drink

If marijuana is not as destructive to society as something that is, like alchohol, why is everyone so against it being legal to adults who choose to use it?

I think if the voters in a state vote by majority to legalize it, the states voice should be recognized and let the state work out the details. Our economy could benefit from the tax dollars, which could be put into a multitude of things, like schools, hospitals, police and fire departments, transportation- which would benefit the community as a whole.

It has nothing to do with greed, it has everything to do with being realistic about people wanting the right to do it legally. Adults, with laws similar to DUI, and not using it in a public place (being respectful to the community).

Keeping it illeagal keeps creating criminals out of every day ordinary people. It also keeps giving the drug cartels just another thing to smuggle into the country to get rich off of. I guess I could go on and on, I just feel it's hypocritical to say alchohol is ok but marijuana is scheduled up there with cocaine and heroin (I know you didn't say that Andy, I'm just saying in general).

Thanks for listening,

Sincerely, Clayton

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

When they first banned hemp production, because of pressure from the lumber industry, I don't think that was a step forward for society, so it's hard to argue the slide back down to me.

It was making strides towards legalization in the 30's. However they further cracked down on it thanks to political pressure from Du Pont, because eliminating hemp, left very little competition for Nylon..

[vintagetoppsguy]

I never understood the point of getting high...or drunk for that matter. If people's lives are so pathetic that they have to alter their state of mind to escape reality, that really does say a lot about the decline of America.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I never understood the point of getting high...or drunk for that matter. If people's lives are so pathetic that they have to alter their state of mind to escape reality, that really does say a lot about the decline of America.

Well, I can't explain for other people, I have no desire to do either- but I do know that people legitimately use it as medicine. It does help sick people, with many different ailments.

Others use it recreationally, like they do alchohol. And, some people's lives may be that bad- I don't know.

Sincerely, Clayton

[cubsfan-budman]

There's no end to the things that people do in order to escape reality. Hobbies for instance. Reading for another.

What's actually "pathetic" is judging others for how they choose to spend their time if it doesnt affect you one way or the other.

[novakjr]

I think the pharmaceutical companies have their hand in the pot(no pun intended) this time... Working in the trades, I've know plenty of people who use it as a natural painkiller to get through the day. It's gotta be better than keeping yourself hopped up on pills. I don't do either, but I'm not one to judge, I just kept my distance for potential safety reasons.. But that's a whole other discussion..

Back to the task at hand now. Full legalization could potentially lead to more people self-medicating(this can be good or bad depending on your viewpoint, I just see it as they're doing it anyway). I think that could potentially have a positive effect on the health-care system, if people aren't going to the doctors just to get prescriptions for pain-pills as often.

[travrosty]

.....

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I never understood the point of getting high...or drunk for that matter. If people's lives are so pathetic that they have to alter their state of mind to escape reality, that really does say a lot about the decline of America.

james, i agree. good point, i am against legalizing pot, we don't need it. i am high on life.