Looks blue to me

[atx840]

Figured we could use one more thread on this card. Thanks to Josh at H&S for getting the scans.

[g_vezina_c55]

Nice scan.

The back is absolutely blue

[Al C.risafulli]

Boy, that's beautiful.

-Al

[obcmac]

I am curious as to what people think of this...this card (from ebay)...has the exact same idiosyncratic wear...broken upper right border (can't recall seeing much of that on t206's...but I haven't really looked for it either)...also the spot of Red on the uniform. I don't know what I think now ;-)

Mac

[obcmac]

Forgot to mention...back is a piedmont...factory 25. Maybe they printed the old mill backs after the piedmonts (that is nothing but wild speculation) ;-)

Mac

[scooter729]

I can't chime in about blue or not, but with the hi-res scan, the card definitely looks a bit overgraded as a 30 with its creases and heavy wear. That's obviously not the deciding factor in anyone purchasing this card or not, but I've seen nicer looking 20's than this 30.

[ullmandds]

what's up with the dots in the C-H-I-C-A-G-O lettering. i'm not sure if I've ever seen this before on this card?

NEVER MIND!!!!!

[E93]

Looks good to me in the scan, just like it did in person under a lighted loupe. Is it possible to line it up with a black Old Mill like in the other thread. It would be more meaningful now with a good scan.
JimB

[E93]

That is not the same card imho. On a quick glance of the upper left corner it is clear.
JimB

Originally Posted by obcmac

I am curious as to what people think of this...this card (from ebay)...has the exact same idiosyncratic wear...broken upper right border (can't recall seeing much of that on t206's...but I haven't really looked for it either)...also the spot of Red on the uniform. I don't know what I think now ;-)

Mac

[drumback]

Very interesting. None of the other Walsh cards on eBay have the red dot or the break in the upper right border. Also, see the white dot above the back of his head? It is on both the blue back card and the one posted by Mac, but none of the others.

Does anyone here own that Walsh or have a tag on it in the psa registry?

[Leon]

What an intriguing card!! I have gone back and forth on it, myself. Sometimes I like it, other times not quite as much. Right now, that scan in this thread has me liking it again. It reminds me a little bit of the AWA Caramel E222's. Before the 2nd and 3rd ones became known it was thought that it could have been an anomaly. Now, it's a legitimatized type. If I were a T206 back collector (which I am, but not hard core) then I think at some level I would want to own this card. Maybe 15k-20k wouldn't be a bad risk? Personally, I like owning unique things. And then too, if another is found, what does that do to the value? (I don't think it goes down at all, quite the contrary)

[x2drich2000]

I agree with Jim, the blue back and PSA 3.5 are not the same card. Notice the centering, to me, the blue back has a larger left border. Also, these two cards are not unique to having the missing border and red dot. Here is auction for another Walsh missing the border and with the dot.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1276508

DJ

[atx840]

+1 Leon, I was quite impressed when I saw the scan.....oddities and backs are my thing, too bad the price tag is WAY out of my reach

I'm fairly certain the intent was to show that the missing border and dot are not anomalies (like the blue back) and likely just an issue with a plate..which these examples might have all been printed from.

There are several with the flaw. Someone pointed these other examples out.

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=47011&lotNo=12098
http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=151126&lotNo=41036
http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=73305

Found this example in the original thread, posted by Scott Stiffler

[drumback]

No, I don't think they are the same card either, but they share common flaws that seem unlikely. Both have the a white spot, as mentioned before, above the back of the head. Noted, one is larger than the other. Also, both have a white mark just a bit above his shoulder near the right border. None of the other Chesbros on eBay currently have these flaws. Also, there is a small mark extending down at the middle of the bottom border. Probably just printing flaws that may exist on other samples, but it's interesting that none of the others on eBay have these flaws.

Is it possible the one was used as a template to create the blue back card? Doesn't seem likely, but if it was, the fakers have reached a level of sophistication that will fool veteran collectors. That's a scary thought.

[x2drich2000]

Interesting Chris that the three cards you brought up and the 1 I did that all have the missing border and red dot are all from the 350 series and factory 25. Also, the blue Old Mill is factory 25. Would the Old Mill back be from this same series?

DJ

[teetwoohsix]

It's no doubt blue, but that's the problem. The reprints were that color blue.

Anything I say beyond that will only come across as me bashing the card, so-I have a question for anyone who cares to answer- if this card were posted in a thread, and someone said "look what I found in my collection"- without knowing anything else about the card, and, it was raw and ungraded-honestly- how many people would be calling this a reprint? Or, a "Frankenstein"? My guess was 97% of the board, give or take.....

Sincerely, Clayton

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

It's no doubt blue, but that's the problem. The reprints were that color blue.

Anything I say beyond that will only come across as me bashing the card, so-I have a question for anyone who cares to answer- if this card were posted in a thread, and someone said "look what I found in my collection"- without knowing anything else about the card, and, it was raw and ungraded-honestly- how many people would be calling this a reprint? Or, a "Frankenstein"? My guess was 97% of the board, give or take.....

Sincerely, Clayton

When this card was first introduced in a post ungraded many people said it was a reprint, then I'm sure surprised after seeing it was graded by SGC

[E93]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

-I have a question for anyone who cares to answer- if this card were posted in a thread, and someone said "look what I found in my collection"- without knowing anything else about the card, and, it was raw and ungraded-honestly- how many people would be calling this a reprint? Or, a "Frankenstein"? My guess was 97% of the board, give or take.....

Sincerely, Clayton

IMHO that is more a comment on the nature/tone this board has developed than anything to do with the card.

Not only has SGC authenticated it with full awareness of the risks and implications of doing so, but so has virtually every T206 expert who has seen and held the card.
JimB

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by E93

IMHO that is more a comment on the nature/tone this board has developed than anything to do with the card.

Not only has SGC authenticated it with full awareness of the risks and implications of doing so, but so has virtually every T206 expert who has seen and held the card.
JimB

True, you are right.

Good luck to the bidders !!!!!!

Sincerely, Clayton

[Bpm0014]

Maybe we can get the "Cincinnati Wagner" duo/clowns to get their "expert" to do a paper analysis on this one too...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

Maybe we can get the "Cincinnati Wagner" duo/clowns to get their "expert" to do a paper analysis on this one too...

They did paper tests on the back of the blue-eyed Wagner. That paper was legitimate. The front, well, they forgot to test that part (from what I remember).

[Bpm0014]

Haha!! I was being sarcastic. but I do beleive the Walsh to be genuine FWIW...

[Exhibitman]

Interesting view re the desirability of the card from an investment standpoint, Leon.

The collective expertise of the people here who actually saw the card raw at the National is something I would trust infinitely more than any opinion from a scan. I don't care if every member here who hasn't actually seen the card thinks it is fake, they don't have the foundation to make that claim. To paraphrase John Nance Garner, an authenticity opinion from a scan is not worth a bucket of warm piss.

If the thing is a fake then it has fooled some of the most experienced collectors around and it is time to sell off all of my cards and do something else for fun because the world just became truly scary. I think it far more likely that a sheet got run with some blue ink in the tray.

[Orioles1954]

I wrote the description for the Blue Old Mill Walsh last night and it was a pleasure spending an hour or so with it.

[ullmandds]

Did it tell you any interesting stories?

[Orioles1954]

"If walls could talk"....

[Matthew H]

It does look about 100x better in the scan.