Of Blue OLD MILL T206's....and such

[packs]

I'm not going to change your mind. Don't even know why I got involved as I have no interest in the card either way.

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not going to change your mind. Don't even know why I got involved as I have no interest in the card either way.

Nor making a valid argument or much sense for that matter.

Anyone can see the printing is identical and matched perfect. The RP OM's appear to be about 1/8" smaller in frame size than an original. The Walsh matches the originals spot on other than color. As of now there is only one copy. Now it's known to look out for this on the OM's it's only a matter of time before more surface. Then what will be said by those that have never seen or touched it in person. "Awe there all fakes!"

Is there a single person that was at the nationals that seen the card in person that says its fake? I bet that's a no.

Now how many weren't there that say it is fake? A lot of people that don't know what there talking about.

Your PC/Mac is not the same as the look, feel, and smell in person. Then again this could be the best fake in the world. Remove the back ink and print new ink without damaging the front at all. lMFAO!!!!!smh

[tedzan]

I initiated this thread, displaying the Lundgren reprint alongside a real T206 of Tenney, in order to illustrate an obvious difference
between the backs of these two OLD MILL cards. This was in response to a fellow collector who was very skeptical of the Walsh
blue OLD MILL card. He recalled having several old reprints cards (in the 1990's) that had blue OLD MILL backs.

Having known the owner for over 25 years of the blue OLD MILL Walsh card; and, having seen this card close up prior to it being
graded, I feel it is an original T206.

My speculation regarding this card is simply this scenario. The pressman at American Lithographic was printing a run of PIEDMONT
backs on pre-printed sheets (of fronts). Subsequently, a job order called for OLD MILL backs. But, the pressman forgot to replace
the blue ink in his press with Black ink. And, continued printing the OLD MILL backs with the Blue ink remaining from the prior PIED-
MONT press run.

NOTE....Some have previously said that this card's OLD MILL is "POLAR BEAR blue ink". I differ with that observation. Walsh cards
were printed in the 150/350 series. The POLAR BEAR backs were printed in the 350-only, 350/460 and 460-only series (but not in
the 150/350 series T206's).

If this scenario explains this Walsh card anomaly, then we should eventually discover a few more cards with Blue OLD MILL backs.
Which should provide us more confidence that this Walsh card is real. However, I caution T206 back collectors, this Blue ink OLD
MILL is strictly the result of a printing anamoly....not a "new T206 back".



TED Z

[t206blogcom]

Originally Posted by tedzan

My speculation regarding this card is simply this scenario. The pressman at American Lithographic was printing a run of PIEDMONT backs on pre-printed sheets (of fronts). Subsequently, a job order called for OLD MILL backs. But, the pressman forgot to replace the blue ink in his press with Black ink. And, continued printing the OLD MILL backs with the Blue ink remaining from the prior PIEDMONT press run.

I have a lot of respect for you Ted as your knowledge and experience with T206s will always outweigh mine. However, I must respectively disagree with your statement. This might make sense if there were more than one, but there's only one (unless you count all of the other blue Old Mill reprints).

Originally Posted by tedzan

If this scenario explains this Walsh card anomaly, then we should eventually discover a few more cards with Blue OLD MILL backs. Which should provide us more confidence that this Walsh card is real.

Isn't this just an invitation for scam artists to produce more blue Old Mill cards? Won't they produce more now that this card has been graded by a well respected TPG and several prominent collectors have deemed it 'real' - Just a few more to make them more legit and widely accepted by the community? Unfortunately, some collectors will end up paying good money for doctored cards.

A lot of us want to believe this card is real, because we're die hard collectors and fans of T206s. A discovery of this magnitude is exciting and dramatic. But just because we want the card to be real, it won't make it real. Just ask the cousins in Ohio who desperately wanted a certain T206 to be real...

[Jaybird]

I guarantee that no one that saw that fake Wagner in person thought it was real. Not the case with the Blue Old Mill. In fact it's the exact opposite. Everyone that hasn't seen it is calling it into question.

[t206blogcom]

Jason - I totally agree with your statement about the Wagner. I was just trying to point out the comparison that in both cases, people want what they have to be real.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by t206blogcom

This might make sense if there were more than one, but there's only one (unless you count all of the other blue Old Mill reprints).

You are assuming that there was a high survival rate. But it's quite possible that less than 1/10th of 1% of T206's survived to now. That would be 1 card per 15 or so sheets.

Plus this "special batch" could have been delivered to the West Virginia coal mining areas or the railroad builders in remote places where practically nobody saved the cards.

[t206blogcom]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

You are assuming that there was a high survival rate. But it's quite possible that less than 1/10th of 1% of T206's survived to now. That would be 1 card per 15 or so sheets.

Plus this "special batch" could have been delivered to the West Virginia coal mining areas or the railroad builders in remote places where practically nobody saved the cards.

There are too many 'ifs' and 'could have beens' for me. Given we've seen several of the other T206 variations and scarce cards survive the tests of time and other factors (Doyle, Magie, Plank, Wagner to name 4), I suspect we'd have seen more than one 'legit' version by now. But that's just my opinion.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I initiated this thread, displaying the Lundgren reprint alongside a real T206 of Tenney, in order to illustrate an obvious difference
between the backs of these two OLD MILL cards. This was in response to a fellow collector who was very skeptical of the Walsh
blue OLD MILL card. He recalled having several old reprints cards (in the 1990's) that had blue OLD MILL backs.

Having known the owner for over 25 years of the blue OLD MILL Walsh card; and, having seen this card close up prior to it being
graded, I feel it is an original T206.

My speculation regarding this card is simply this scenario. The pressman at American Lithographic was printing a run of PIEDMONT
backs on pre-printed sheets (of fronts). Subsequently, a job order called for OLD MILL backs. But, the pressman forgot to replace
the blue ink in his press with Black ink. And, continued printing the OLD MILL backs with the Blue ink remaining from the prior PIED-
MONT press run.

NOTE....Some have previously said that this card's OLD MILL is "POLAR BEAR blue ink". I differ with that observation. Walsh cards
were printed in the 150/350 series. The POLAR BEAR backs were printed in the 350-only, 350/460 and 460-only series (but not in
the 150/350 series T206's).

If this scenario explains this Walsh card anomaly, then we should eventually discover a few more cards with Blue OLD MILL backs.
Which should provide us more confidence that this Walsh card is real. However, I caution T206 back collectors, this Blue ink OLD
MILL is strictly the result of a printing anamoly....not a "new T206 back".



TED Z

+1

Originally Posted by tedzan

My speculation regarding this card is simply this scenario. The pressman at American Lithographic was printing a run of PIEDMONT
backs on pre-printed sheets (of fronts). Subsequently, a job order called for OLD MILL backs. But, the pressman forgot to replace
the blue ink in his press with Black ink. And, continued printing the OLD MILL backs with the Blue ink remaining from the prior PIED-
MONT press run.

TED Z

What if the pressman actually changed the ink out but didn't wipe the plate clean before running the sheet? That could have caused this right???

[packs]

I just have one last question and this will be my last post on this subject.

Experts on the board who looked at the card at the National, were you aware the Old Mill cards were reprinted with blue backs when you looked at the card?

[E93]

Can somebody line up the reprint blue old mill with the Walsh for comparison. If they are obviously different in proportions, that would lead to the conclusion that the Walsh did not come from the same press run as the other reprint.
JimB
P.S. A scan rather than photo would be helpful on the Walsh too.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by atx840

Crude comparison, but the print is spot on when overlaid.

Originally Posted by E93

Can somebody line up the reprint blue old mill with the Walsh for comparison. If they are obviously different in proportions, that would lead to the conclusion that the Walsh did not come from the same press run as the other reprint.
JimB
P.S. A scan rather than photo would be helpful on the Walsh too.

atx840 scaled it to fit, but you can scale this to fit also. So you really need an original, a known reprint, and the walsh scanned at the same time.

[tedzan]

According to my scenario, the printing plate with any vestige of Blue ink would be the PIEDMONT plates. Any remnant ink on the OLD MILL plates,
I would expect to be Black ink from a previous press run.

Perhaps, I'm not certain I catch what you are suggesting ?

TED Z