I was the victim of shill bidding on ebay!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leon, sorry if I wasn't clear, my point is that if you bid only by snipe, they can't do it to you.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Leon, sorry if I wasn't clear, my point is that if you bid only by snipe, they can't do it to you.

I understand that Peter. If I really want a card on ebay I snipe close to 100% of the time. But the fact remains that bidders are getting run up and then bids are retracted. That is not good. Ask Wonka how he felt the other night.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I understand that Peter. If I really want a card on ebay I snipe close to 100% of the time. But the fact remains that bidders are getting run up and then bids are retracted. That is not good. Ask Wonka how he felt the other night.

If that's the state of the world, one has to be proactive. Use a sniping service. It's a much easier fix than confronting sellers who aren't going to do anything about it or confronting ebay who isn't going to do anything about it.

Ebay is useless. The other night I asked a guy why, if a card (modern but a condition sensitive one) was as nice as the one he had pictured, he hadn't graded it. He wrote back that it was a stock photo. I called ebay and informed them, and of course they could see his message to me. They did nothing.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If that's the state of the world, one has to be proactive. Use a sniping service. It's a much easier fix than confronting sellers who aren't going to do anything about it or confronting ebay who isn't going to do anything about it.

Ebay is useless. The other night I asked a guy why, if a card (modern but a condition sensitive one) was as nice as the one he had pictured, he hadn't graded it. He wrote back that it was a stock photo. I called ebay and informed them, and of course they could see his message to me. They did nothing.

If I make a mistake and leave my keys in my car I don't expect it to be stolen. Of course, as stated, I am proactive and snipe all of the time. Others don't use a sniping service so they should be defrauded? Sweet.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leon you are misstaing my position and you know it. I am not saying it's OK for anyone to defraud anyone. I am saying that the reality is that it's going to happen on ebay and there isn't much that can be done to stop it, but that the good news is that from the buyer's perspective it is easy enough to avoid being defrauded.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Leon you are misstaing my position and you know it. I am not saying it's OK for anyone to defraud anyone. I am saying that the reality is that it's going to happen on ebay and there isn't much that can be done to stop it, but that the good news is that from the buyer's perspective it is easy enough to avoid being defrauded.

I know Peter .....I was just being a forum member the way I get it. It's sort of fun feeding the monkeys, so to say. Now I know why people rag on me all of the time...it's amusing. I was just messing with ya'.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Lol.

[atx840]

a***x( 146) $114.50
****g( 1166) $112.00
3***b( 310) $88.57
m***f( 908) $72.00
s***s( 272) $71.22
m***f( 908) $68.00
s***s( 272) $68.00
l***l( 465) $64.50
m***f( 908) $63.00
e***s( 6669) $60.00
w***d( 154) $58.58
a***h( 496) $46.00
a***h( 496) $41.00
s***s( 272) $28.88
b***b( 7412) $22.00
7***i( 1225) $16.00
s***s( 272) $12.88
s***s( 272) $8.22
****g( 1166) $4.05

[howard38]

/

[peterose4hof]

What other large Ebay sellers might (allegedly) fit into this debate besides Probstein? I know the name BigBoydSportscards3 has come up a lot. Anyone else?

[smtjoy]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

What other large Ebay sellers might (allegedly) fit into this debate besides Probstein? I know the name BigBoydSportscards3 has come up a lot. Anyone else?

I keep an eye on all of them, I like to check VCP prior to bidding, you would be surprised how many times the same item is for sale again from the same consignor or another consignor (like it was last sold by Probstein123 and now its for auction with PWCC), big red flags and I avoid bidding. The thing about the consignors is they do provide a good service for those wanting to sell with little to no experience or those just not wanting to deal with it and a lot of them are honest and do not shill their auctions.

But the BIG issue imo is its the perfect cover for any dishonest seller and if most of the consignors turn a blind eye when a consignee wins their own item, rumor has it some just charge their fee and relist or return (as long as its a client sending lots of cards you get a pass).

Also I check the bidding after I do win something from one of them and I look for the bidding % and the retractions is a huge sign something funky is going on. Its really cut down on my bidding on ebay for over a year now, sad but right now I think I am getting better deals as a buyer thru AH's then consignors sales on ebay. I do think the feds have had an effect on the AH's and they are all for the most part playing it safe.

[seablaster]

Originally Posted by howard38

Even with a snipe a buyer can end up paying more because of a shiller as long as there are other bidders that are not using a service. If an underbidder's gets shilled to his max bid then someone who won with a snipe likely paid more than he would or should have.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here.

It doesn't matter if the underbidder gets shilled to their maximum because their maximum still would have been exceeded by the winning bidder anyway.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by seablaster

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here.

It doesn't matter if the underbidder gets shilled to their maximum because their maximum still would have been exceeded by the winning bidder anyway.

I believe the point is Why should you be happy with paying the maximum? Haven't you ever been to a live auction? If my *max* on an item is $500, I don't scream out "$500!". The bids increment, and depending on who's there, I may be the winner at $450. Or $100. That is what an auction is. If you were shilled up to your max bid, someone stole your money, just as sure as if they swiped it from your wallet.

[HRBAKER]

If the underbids that you "outsnipe" have been driven up prior by a shill doesn't it still affect the final price you pay in a negative way?

[howard38]

.

[seablaster]

Originally Posted by howard38

If the underbidder doesn't know there is a sniper and no one is shilling he might stop his bid at say $10 even though he's willing to go higher if necessary. If he is shilled it then becomes necessary to keep bidding if he wants to win and therefore bids as high as $20. If a snipe has been set at $21 and no one else bids then the sniper has paid about $10 more than he should have.

I see where you are coming from Howard. I guess at this point I am working under the assumption that most bidders are savvy and experienced; they know their maximum bid well in advance of the auction end.