This is the problem with grading...

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Folks almost universally pan Ken Goldin based on stuff that occurred over a decade ago, when he allegedly screwed others. Maybe I skipped over it, but I don't recall one person saying that they personally got taken. Not saying that the widespread disgust isn't warranted -- I share it -- but I am setting a timeline.

Then I read this thread about a current event. Amazingly (at least to me), some folks volunteer that they are OK with being the victims of fraud so long as they aren't defrauded beyond what they were willing to pay initially. Being the victim of attempted fraud is just fine because they didn't get hit this time. That has to be the craziest sh*t I've heard in a while.

If you paid $600K for a house that you could have gotten for $300K without the mysterious (and non-existent) bidder who cost you the extra cash, is that OK because $600K was your budget? If the answer is yes, then you either have more money than sense or are simply an idiot. The same is true for being shilled on a card. And, shilling hurts people other than the idiots who think its OK, because it makes the cheaters feel enabled. Then they try to do it again, which is detrimental to those of us who actually care about whether or not we've been screwed.

Difficult to prevent fraud when people don't have a problem being defrauded.

[T206Collector]

Please re-read my last post with the understanding that I meant a "legitimate" bid to be the opposite of a "shill" bid.

I think where we diverge is that so many people on here think that if we don't worry much about shilling we must like being taken advantage of, or that we like spending more money for things. These are not mutually exclusive. I hate mosquitos, but I will go outside anyway. If posting on the internet about how much you hate mosquitos makes you feel better, go right ahead. I'd prefer to enjoy the great outdoors, smacking the occasional mosquito, but not worrying about when the next one will come.

Call me an idiot all you want, but the fact of the matter is that plenty of intelligent people on here don't care much about this issue. This really seems to annoy a certain crowd on here -- but if that crowd is only seeing this in black and white, we will never truly join on this issue to discuss it. And you may never understand if there is a key to ridding the world of shilling once and for all. Might it not help your crusade to truly understand why many people don't mind being defrauded in this context?