Seemingly enhanced/altered Harry Truman signed baseball featured on haulsofshame.com

[JimStinson]

Liston's wife Geraldine insisted her entire life that she NEVER signed for Sonny which we know for a fact is not true. I spoke with Sonny's manager and confidant a couple years ago who also happened to be George Foreman's confidant and he told me that the reason Liston didn;t sign was because it was such a LABORED process it took forever so Sonny would just say "NO". His wife taught him how to sign his name so it looks ALOT like hers but has significant differences , Also as a side note and for historical purposes. Liston's guy told me he was the most "Unlucky" guy in boxing...When Sonny fought Leotis Martin he bought an "option" on BOTH fighters ..who ever won would fight for the heavyweight championship of the World. In a shocking defeat Martin knocked out Liston, and then after the Martin WIN he was diagnosed with a detached retina , which meant he could not fight. So much for hedging your bets ....lol

[JimStinson]

But I do support PSA/DNA and JSA. Why? Because even though I feel that they could and should be better, especially in some areas, overall they have made buying autographs dramatically safer than it was before them.



Steve with all due respect ...BEFORE WHAT ? In the old days dealers with great reputations would give opinions for FREE......FREE , no the hobby was not like clean driven snow , But you had maybe three or ten or more EXPERENCED autograph people going to bat at no charge. I guess because it was FREE it was worthless. If its $100.00 it MUST be worth every dime.
_______________________
Vintage REAL autographs for sale daily
stinsonsports.com

[Big Dave]

+ 1000

[travrosty]

Steve, read what I wrote,

I wrote past tense, he "had" a million shares, he "was" a founder of CU. And then I posted links to prove it.

please read.

you are partial to psa. you like them, that's what partial means.

I read that site as a watchdog, not because it has useful information.

[earlywynnfan]

Do you think Firpo went into boxing so he could beat up everyone who made fun of his crazy hairline?? I like the lift he gets, but why is his hairline at a diagonal?

Ken

PS: I know nothing about boxing autos, but if you both drink 17 doubles, I may be able to out-authenticate you both!

[travrosty]

[QUOTE=JimStinson;1025299]But I do support PSA/DNA and JSA. Why? Because even though I feel that they could and should be better, especially in some areas, overall they have made buying autographs dramatically safer than it was before them.



Steve with all due respect ...BEFORE WHAT ? In the old days dealers with great reputations would give opinions for FREE......FREE , no the hobby was not like clean driven snow , But you had maybe three or ten or more EXPERENCED autograph people going to bat at no charge. I guess because it was FREE it was worthless. If its $100.00 it MUST be worth every dime.

==========================================


I agree with Jim, if paying 100 dollars, you better get a darn good opinion and a free shoe phone from SI!

all this third party certification has done is to slab the fakes and certify the fakes forever in those slabbed tombs, erroneously maybe, an honest mistake maybe, buy now they are in that slab forever.

I said a million times if it was done right with safeguards, checks and balances, and proper time, experience, and weighted thoughtfulness going into the authentications, with checks and balances, and a way for the public to demand honesty, integrity and transparency from the tpa's, i might think it would have some value.

but the way they do it. quick, 50,000 autographs authenticated for mastro in 48 man hours, for 7000 dollars. that's 14 cents per auto and less than 4 seconds to authenticate each autograph, and the authenticator was the consignor to the auction? that is the what steve cyrkin thinks is great?

they have to answer to the stockholders, who want increased share value. so they have to try to give them increased share value, which means increasing submissions, not hiring an adequate amount of people to properly authenticate them all, and authenticating faster and faster outside their area of expertise. whether or not it benefits the consumer or not.

brian sobrero signed off on the hotel registry of jeffries, sharkey, and corbett which as phony as a three dollar bill. i had never heard of sobrero in the boxing autograph community, he signed off on a sunday, which means he was at a show and you have to take your stab at whatever comes in the door, whether you know boxing or not.

I think it hurts the consumer and the hobby. steve cyrkin thinks its good for the hobby.

huggins and scott just auctioned off a signed glove for 2100 dollars with 2 rocky marciano autographs on it, steve.

it sold but the marciano autographs were secretarial, signed by his manager, and all the experienced boxing guys knew it wasn't his signature. why didn't psa?
what's your answer to this?

[JimStinson]

I was there when the process started and it was a GOOD idea, PSA had FOUR count em four of the best autograph guys in the country that looked at the autographs independent of one another and then gave their opinion. 90% of the time we agreed. Yes I was one of the guys. Sometimes we had HEATED debates , like jury duty but in the end we had to all agree , or render a NO OPINION. The rub was a no opinion =a refund so that was not too popular. Then it became why fly FOUR EXPERTS in when we can get by with ONE ? Then it became ......that ONE is too expensive so lets just put a couple guys BEHIND A CURTAIN that will work cheap. In the old days we used to call them "stadium chasers" they were funny to watch. But somewhere between point A and point B they became experts ...But hey spend your money however you like. the facts are the facts and I saw it with my own EYES. I was there. Is the process better than nothing ??? probably especially in light of the fact that the bogus thiefs became more sophisticated to keep up with thier competition...which frankly is like a boy fighting a man. Sorry to tell you there is NO magic wand. Its opinions based on many, many years of experience ...you can't BUY that

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

I was there when the process started and it was a GOOD idea, PSA had FOUR count em four of the best autograph guys in the country that looked at the autographs independent of one another and then gave their opinion. 90% of the time we agreed. Yes I was one of the guys. Sometimes we had HEATED debates , like jury duty but in the end we had to all agree , or render a NO OPINION. The rub was a no opinion =a refund so that was not too popular. Then it became why fly FOUR EXPERTS in when we can get by with ONE ? Then it became ......that ONE is too expensive so lets just put a couple guys BEHIND A CURTAIN that will work cheap. In the old days we used to call them "stadium chasers" they were funny to watch. But somewhere between point A and point B they became experts ...But hey spend your money however you like. the facts are the facts and I saw it with my own EYES. I was there. Is the process better than nothing ??? probably especially in light of the fact that the bogus thiefs became more sophisticated to keep up with thier competition...which frankly is like a boy fighting a man. Sorry to tell you there is NO magic wand. Its opinions based on many, many years of experience ...you can't BUY that

+1

[JimStinson]

Thank you but I will probably be sorry I said that in the morning

[Big Dave]

+1...+1... It's all about the Benjamins......it's not about integrity, accuracy, correctness, honesty, or ethics.....it is all about the Benjamins....bottom line...and nothing else.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

I was there when the process started and it was a GOOD idea, PSA had FOUR count em four of the best autograph guys in the country that looked at the autographs independent of one another and then gave their opinion. 90% of the time we agreed. Yes I was one of the guys. Sometimes we had HEATED debates , like jury duty but in the end we had to all agree , or render a NO OPINION. The rub was a no opinion =a refund so that was not too popular. Then it became why fly FOUR EXPERTS in when we can get by with ONE ? Then it became ......that ONE is too expensive so lets just put a couple guys BEHIND A CURTAIN that will work cheap. In the old days we used to call them "stadium chasers" they were funny to watch. But somewhere between point A and point B they became experts ...But hey spend your money however you like. the facts are the facts and I saw it with my own EYES. I was there. Is the process better than nothing ??? probably especially in light of the fact that the bogus thiefs became more sophisticated to keep up with thier competition...which frankly is like a boy fighting a man. Sorry to tell you there is NO magic wand. Its opinions based on many, many years of experience ...you can't BUY that

+100

Thanks for saying it!

[JimStinson]

Well Good ! I hope I get some help from my friends here or I am f****ed
Because I was not the only one there.
I did not mention any names because they know who they were