Mastro and Allen Indicted

[barrysloate]

Peter- I believe that card is currently in the Hall of Fame. The "jumbo Wagner" is a different example.

I feel that the current owner of the PSA 8 Wagner should get substantial compensation, and then I think PSA should take it back and relabel it "AUTH". Once they do that it's a perfectly marketable card at any time with a spectacular eye appeal. Plus, it will finally be properly graded. If all this information becomes public it can't remain in an 8 holder.

[ruth-gehrig]

So when Lipset stated "probably the finest copy known to exist", he was unaware of the Wagner Lifson/Mastro bought? What happened to the Plank that was listed in ex-mt and Lajoie near mint??

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Peter- I believe that card is currently in the Hall of Fame. The "jumbo Wagner" is a different example.

I feel that the current owner of the PSA 8 Wagner should get substantial compensation, and then I think PSA should take it back and relabel it "AUTH". Once they do that it's a perfectly marketable card at any time with a spectacular eye appeal. Plus, it will finally be properly graded. If all this information becomes public it can't remain in an 8 holder.

Ah thanks Barry. I have seen the HOF one but I don't recall it being particularly oversize. It was quite some time ago though.

How does PSA explain itself if it does that? Does it blame Bill Hughes? Fall on its sword and say our bad?

[bh3443]

Any one else see this video "Wagner testing".......... think it's from the Cobb/Edwards card.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gItjwny1Zk

[RUSH2112]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Peter- I believe that card is currently in the Hall of Fame. The "jumbo Wagner" is a different example.

I feel that the current owner of the PSA 8 Wagner should get substantial compensation, and then I think PSA should take it back and relabel it "AUTH". Once they do that it's a perfectly marketable card at any time with a spectacular eye appeal. Plus, it will finally be properly graded. If all this information becomes public it can't remain in an 8 holder.

Is it possible the card may be worth more in it's original PSA 8 holder?

The slab is what makes the card infamous or famous, whichever you prefer and the developing story makes it more interesting to collectors as each day passes. Afterall, this is the card everyone is talking about, not the other ones that are technically a better grade.

[barrysloate]

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

[e107collector]

Let's say that the PSA 8 Wagner gets reholdered to a PSA Auth slab.

What is the next best Wagner available at that point? PSA 5?

Tony

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

+1

I’ve always said I find it sad and funny that the cornerstone of our hobby and the grading phenomenon is a well-known altered card.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

Well-said. Looking forward to seeing what comes out of this - how it affects the card's icon status, price, the hobby, etc.

[brookdodger55]

Maybe Calvindog Can answer this or anyone else with legal experience ?

If an item was put into Mastro's auction and illegal activity took place with inflated prices. Can the seller of the item who recieved an inflated price (Possibly
illegally) be subjected to a clawback of illegal profits that were realized. (Can what happened in the Bernie Madoff case happen in this case with illegal profits). Any info greatly appecieated.

[calvindog]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...raud-case.html

Allen’s attorney, Michael J. Petro said his client is “absolutely” planning to fight the charges — and pointed the finger at Mastro.

“Bill Mastro is the Mastromind,” Petro said.


LOLOLOL

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by calvindog

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...raud-case.html

Allen’s attorney, Michael J. Petro said his client is “absolutely” planning to fight the charges — and pointed the finger at Mastro.

“Bill Mastro is the Mastromind,” Petro said.


LOLOLOL

That throws an Allen wrench into everything

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by calvindog

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...raud-case.html

Allen’s attorney, Michael J. Petro said his client is “absolutely” planning to fight the charges — and pointed the finger at Mastro.

“Bill Mastro is the Mastromind,” Petro said.


LOLOLOL

Mastro must be petro-fied.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...raud-case.html

Allen’s attorney, Michael J. Petro said his client is “absolutely” planning to fight the charges — and pointed the finger at Mastro.

“Bill Mastro is the Mastromind,” Petro said.


LOLOLOL

When this is all over, Bill and Doug will be shills of their former selves.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by brookdodger55

If an item was put into Mastro's auction and illegal activity took place with inflated prices. Can the seller of the item who recieved an inflated price (Possibly illegally) be subjected to a clawback of illegal profits that were realized. (Can what happened in the Bernie Madoff case happen in this case with illegal profits). Any info greatly appecieated.

I think that's a definite "yes". But it may be hard to collect the alleged overpayment. If an item was inflated by 20%, say from $100K to $120K, then the auction house roughly collected an extra $3K in fees. The consignor received the rest. The extra $3K in fees are likely gone now (salaries, rent, profit, etc.) except to the extent that the guilty persons are held personally liable. But if they got rich over the business, they got rich over the fees, not the overpayment. So the consignor has the rest, $17K in this example, and good luck going back to him.

[calvindog]

I don't imagine the government will be looking to 'clawback' any ill-gotten gains unless the consignors were in on the fraud.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.

It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT.

If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it.

I have to say that this quote brought me to a cheering, applauding roar! I felt like I was in the thick of one of Mcgreevy's Spirited Speeches. Standing in the middle of Boston's 3rd Base pub with a pint in hand as Barry... Ahhmm, I mean McGreevy, sprayed the best ale all over anyone in his speaking path as he carried out this victorious volley of wisdom.

Nuf Ced...

[calvindog]

More investigations and arrests will clean the hobby up, unfortunately. Too much money to be made by fraud; the criminals need to believe there is a good chance they'll get caught and punished. End of story.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by calvindog

More investigations and arrests will clean the hobby up, unfortunately. Too much money to be made by fraud; the criminals need to believe there is a good chance they'll get caught and punished. End of story.

Now if they would go after Coaches Corner.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Now if they would go after Coaches Corner.

I am betting this is not the only high profile set of indictments that we will hear about. back in 2007-8 is the first I heard of this investigation. This may just be the tip of the iceberg so to speak.