Altered? Who cares? 52T REA Mantle AUTH ALT

[Peter_Spaeth]

Multiple, disclosed alterations and the card still sells for 45K? The times they have a changed.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=186584

Encapsulated as Authentic by PSA due to being trimmed along multiple edges and color added. There is also evidence suggesting the card has been pressed to conceal creases and wrinkles.

[BigfootIsReal]

I don't get it either. I'll NEVER buy an altered card......EVER. Jack Daniels bought this one. You can get a 2 at that price

[parkplace33]

Odds on how fast that card is cracked out and resubmitted?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Odds on how fast that card is cracked out and resubmitted?

Trimmed, color added, and creases pressed out, and someone is going to grade it on resubmission??

[Johnny630]

This card has been smashed. I could see this ending up in another TPG's holder with a number grade very shortly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

This card has been smashed. I could see this ending up in another TPG's holder with a number grade very shortly.

And who do you think is corrupt enough to grade it?

[Lorewalker]

Wow that is an astonishing price to pay for that card. It is a mess and then some. There is absolutely no chance any of the big 4 TPG give it a number grade. Not even Kurt's Card Care can save this one...or can it?????

[butchie_t]

My take and it is somewhat different.

If it is for my PC and it is the last card I need to finish my 52T set, mind you, if I was ever to work on that set, none of the cards would ever be close to pristine by any means.

But, last card and a bargain????(relative term, bargain.). Well I'm gonna break it out of the slab anyway and put it in a binder with the set. I would keep the tag and store it with the card.

I'd be thinking somewhat long and hard about that from my POV.

Now investment and an eventual future sale. No, not from my perspective would I go that route.

Quite the conundrum for me and that is just me.


Butch

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And who do you think is corrupt enough to grade it?

Flip a coin it could be any.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Trimmed, color added, and creases pressed out, and someone is going to grade it on resubmission??

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And who do you think is corrupt enough to grade it?

Probably the same company as they have to have by far the most altered/counterfeit/reprints with number grades. Don't worry because their slabs get the most money. Also at least that Mantle is graded correctly unlike the majority of them. Most have had work done to them and got a number grade. More than one of the bigger card doctors have openly admitted they personally have worked on hundreds of 52 Topps Mantle cards.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And who do you think is corrupt enough to grade it?

Come on, Peter !! You've been in this hobby for decades and you know how it works! lol

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

This card has been smashed. I could see this ending up in another TPG's holder with a number grade very shortly.

Well, honestly I can tell from six feet away the recoloring done on the hat and the background above the bat and his hands. I just think if someone is in the price point of buying this cracked out then you should have an expert with knowledge examining it. Looking at this obviously pressed, trimmed, and recolored card I think the chicken littling about it getting in a numbered big three holder is winning the lottery chance unlikely. Or exactly the same as the painted restored Honus T206.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Multiple, disclosed alterations and the card still sells for 45K? The times they have a changed.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=186584

Encapsulated as Authentic by PSA due to being trimmed along multiple edges and color added. There is also evidence suggesting the card has been pressed to conceal creases and wrinkles.

"EYE Appeal"

[packs]

What would a card like this feel like? Does it feel like something’s strange when you handle it? I would think the pressing would be noticeable when handling the card raw. I guess the slab keeps everyone at a distance but I’m wondering what these cards feel like.

[GasHouseGang]

I understand how to detect several of these "improvements", but how do they detect color added? I had a card that came back from grading that said it had color added, and I couldn't see anything using a UV light. Is there a better way to detect it?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

I understand how to detect several of these "improvements", but how do they detect color added? I had a card that came back from grading that said it had color added, and I couldn't see anything using a UV light. Is there a better way to detect it?

They guess.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

They do own a VSC (video spectral comparator). If you're not familiar, look it up.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

I understand how to detect several of these "improvements", but how do they detect color added? I had a card that came back from grading that said it had color added, and I couldn't see anything using a UV light. Is there a better way to detect it?

I guess there are some coloring agents that won't fluoresce, but UV light will glow most color added.

If you see any area of the card where maybe there looks like wear or damage that probably should have exposed the underlying paper/cardboard but it's still colored, that might be an area to suspect.

Do you have a cert number for it where there is an image? I always like looking for stuff that.

.

[bmattioli]

I'd like to see this Raw in person at least it's well centered..

[BigfootIsReal]

Originally Posted by bmattioli

I'd like to see this Raw in person at least it's well centered..

Ummm, maybe because it's Trimmed!!!! Hello....McFly

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

Ummm, maybe because it's Trimmed!!!! Hello....McFly

It appears to be to be smashed flattened out to me.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I can agree with the thought that restoration will be the way of the future, but guess that a lot of us who are set in our ways would opt for an "honest" beater vs. a Botox Mantle.

Note that I do agree that, if properly disclosed, a restored card is of course honest; it just affords the potential opportunity for deceit down the road.

[vintagerookies51]

What an interesting obsession people have on here with hating on altered cards... What I care about is authenticity, eye appeal and cost. If the card came from a pack in 1952 and has 0.01% of its border trimmed and maybe some color added, I could not care less since I'm getting something with the eye appeal of a 6 for a fraction of the price.

Having your own preference is one thing, but to call people idiots for their preference is just weird behavior.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by vintagerookies51

What an interesting obsession people have on here with hating on altered cards... What I care about is authenticity, eye appeal and cost. If the card came from a pack in 1952 and has 0.01% of its border trimmed and maybe some color added, I could not care less since I'm getting something with the eye appeal of a 6 for a fraction of the price.

Having your own preference is one thing, but to call people idiots for their preference is just weird behavior.

I think there is definitely an age-related factor at play as to who is more accepting of restoration. That, and people whose main motive is buying an iconic card for bragging rights to impress non-collector friends who are familiar with the card but wouldn't have a clue about alteration. To the unschooled eye, a restored card would appear more incredible than one that wasn't restored.

"Hey, non-collector buddy! Check out what I can afford to buy! It's a Mantle rookie! Gem mint! I'm successful!" *Covers flip with thumb when showing it*

[Touch'EmAll]

What is the motive when altering/doctoring a card ?

Is it to simply up the aesthetic eye appeal so the current owner (doctor) will be more pleased with their card when looking at it ?

Or is the motive to garner a higher price upon the sale, most often at the expense of an unknowing potential buyer ?

Or is the motive to do an honest public service to increase the eye appeal and to better preserve the card for future owner(s) of the card ?

How does the coin collecting community generally feel about a rare coin being altered ? I would think there are similar opinions on what is acceptable.

Or are "The Times They Are A-Changin" - and the new crowd prefers an altered/doctored card to buy with their hard earned money because it looks better in spite of the fact it has been tampered with ?

Just my rambling rhetorical questions to ponder.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Or are "The Times They Are A-Changin" - and the new crowd prefers an altered/doctored card to buy with their hard earned money because it looks better in spite of the fact it has been tampered with ?

This is a big one in my mind. We have all kinds of new collectors entering the market, none of whom have been "tainted" (terrible choice of wording) by how restoration has classically been frowned upon in this hobby. Several of these newbies are crossing over from other hobbies such as comic books, where restoration is considered wholly acceptable.

Remember, to the previously uninitiated, the general idea of restoration is seen as a good thing. We hear about it all the time: as someone else mentioned, with classic cars. Also, the fine art world, comic books, furniture, architecture. Restoration is everywhere and the word has very positive connotations when associated with practically anything else.

[vintagerookies51]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

What is the motive when altering/doctoring a card ?

Is it to simply up the aesthetic eye appeal so the current owner (doctor) will be more pleased with their card when looking at it ?

Or is the motive to garner a higher price upon the sale, most often at the expense of an unknowing potential buyer ?

Or is the motive to do an honest public service to increase the eye appeal and to better preserve the card for future owner(s) of the card ?

How does the coin collecting community generally feel about a rare coin being altered ? I would think there are similar opinions on what is acceptable.

Or are "The Times They Are A-Changin" - and the new crowd prefers an altered/doctored card to buy with their hard earned money because it looks better in spite of the fact it has been tampered with ?

Just my rambling rhetorical questions to ponder.

This thread is about a card that is already slabbed as Authentic Altered with a detailed description of what those alterations were. I don't think anyone is condoning trying to hide alterations on a card for profit... some people prefer buying these and saving a lot of money for other cards, and some people would rather have a PSA 6. Both are OK