Ethical to sell 1952 Mantle PSA 8 uncracked case

[1952boyntoncollector]

bidding at $100+ for fake card.....I would think throwing it out would be the right thing to do and not send it out...maybe the famous net54 fraud check guy will buy it..


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uncracked-PS...3D221640596138

[pawpawdiv9]

Based on what i read- this guy bought a PSA 8 holder, that a 52 Mick used to be in. (after carefully reading) He puts a pic of the card inside it?
So, the folks are buying basically a holder with a pic of the card? or am i missing something?

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

Based on what i read- this guy bought a PSA 8 holder, that a 52 Mick used to be in. (after carefully reading) He puts a pic of the card inside it?
So, the folks are buying basically a holder with a pic of the card? or am i missing something?

Not exactly. He claims the case originally held a Yzerman RC card and the case basically fell apart on him when he received it back from PSA. He then took pictures of a real Mantle card and a real Mantle flip and put them inside the case in order to fool his friends.

[gregr2]

What????????

"I took the case to the Nationals and had a dealer beg me to sell it to him for $68,000.00."

[Leon]

This is slightly interesting so I moved it from a BST section...not sure why it was there anyway, as it should have gone in the Pre-1980 Postwar section. Anyone else willing to pay 68k for a holder? Sounds like a pretty good deal.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is slightly interesting so I moved it from a BST section...not sure why it was there anyway, as it should have gone in the Pre-1980 Postwar section. Anyone else willing to pay 68k for a holder? Sounds like a pretty good deal.

wow I started a thread slightly interesting..thats the best so far!..


as to my question.......usualy when you see lots of lots of words and long storys in the seller description on an iconic card.....its usually shady.

I just question the holder getting into the wrong hands...who the heck else is buying it....the fact he says was offered 68k...

I just don't think fakes in legit holders no matter how well accurate the description shouldn't be for sale...... cant sell fake us currency for example that appears real even if you are accurate in a description...

would you want 1000 real holders out there that were bought by buyers knowing that the cards that would be put in there aren't accurately described in the holder?

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by gregr2

What????????

"I took the case to the Nationals and had a dealer beg me to sell it to him for $68,000.00."

Maybe the lighting was bad at that table. Happens.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Griffins

Maybe the lighting was bad at that table. Happens.

Zing!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by griffins

maybe the lighting was bad at that table. Happens.

lmao

[digdugdig]

Originally Posted by gregr2

What????????

"I took the case to the Nationals and had a dealer beg me to sell it to him for $68,000.00."

Me thinks this is the reason people are bidding, unfortunately it will pop up again somewhere with a wee bit heavier price tag on it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by digdugdig

Me thinks this is the reason people are bidding, unfortunately it will pop up again somewhere with a wee bit heavier price tag on it.

right watch out for a mantle psa 8 for 60% of the VCP sale price... (everyone keeps saying 60% is what fakes sell for in prior threads in examples) man just saved 150k+...except I wouldn't of paid that if the guy wanted me to pay by check and if Ian hasn't identified the alleged scam guy yet .....it would of been by paypal..

[vintagehofrookies]

Originally Posted by digdugdig

Me thinks this is the reason people are bidding, unfortunately it will pop up again somewhere with a wee bit heavier price tag on it.

this is exactly what I was thinking which is explains why its over $200 so far. Keep your eyes open at the National this year as this might be making an appearance.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

...maybe the famous net54 fraud check guy will buy it..

Seriously - who would that be?

[Jeffrompa]

That's nuts !

[frankbmd]

i sent the seller a message explaining how fraud could be facilitated by this sale.
He was kind enough to respond


I understand your concern. I no longer want the case for my personal collection. I started the auction off at .99 cents and let it end where it may. There are over 60 people watching it as of right now with 28 bids. I was as honest as I could be in the description and explained in great detail exactly what was being sold. In your professional opinion how would you recommend I sell this item. Thanks and God Bless!!



I responded to him as follows,


The listing has been posted on a message board I and many other collectors frequent. Collectively we have ongoing concerns about fraud in the hobby. Since both the holder and the Mantle photo have no intrinsic value, dollars spent for the holder imply that a buyer is looking to profit from spending hundreds to get it. Your watchers and interest in your auction probably spiked after the listing was posted on our and perhaps other messages boards. I can easily accept from your response that you are not engaged in fraud, but may be inadvertently facilitating it. The right thing to do in my opinion would be to discontinue the auction and destroy the holder.


We'll see what his response is.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

i sent the seller a message explaining how fraud could be facilitated by this sale.
He was kind enough to respond


I understand your concern. I no longer want the case for my personal collection. I started the auction off at .99 cents and let it end where it may. There are over 60 people watching it as of right now with 28 bids. I was as honest as I could be in the description and explained in great detail exactly what was being sold. In your professional opinion how would you recommend I sell this item. Thanks and God Bless!!



I responded to him as follows,


The listing has been posted on a message board I and many other collectors frequent. Collectively we have ongoing concerns about fraud in the hobby. Since both the holder and the Mantle photo have no intrinsic value, dollars spent for the holder imply that a buyer is looking to profit from spending hundreds to get it. Your watchers and interest in your auction probably spiked after the listing was posted on our and perhaps other messages boards. I can easily accept from your response that you are not engaged in fraud, but may be inadvertently facilitating it. The right thing to do in my opinion would be to discontinue the auction and destroy the holder.


We'll see what his response is.

great email man....im glad I brought this to the boards attention.....and not wasting the boards time with my posts..

[EvilKing00]

I reported to ebay and psa in the hopes someone dosnt get ripped off big time down the road from the new owner. Altering that flip is fraud. Kind of like me selling fake $50 bills on ebay and saying they are fake.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

i sent the seller a message explaining how fraud could be facilitated by this sale.
He was kind enough to respond


I understand your concern. I no longer want the case for my personal collection. I started the auction off at .99 cents and let it end where it may. There are over 60 people watching it as of right now with 28 bids. I was as honest as I could be in the description and explained in great detail exactly what was being sold. In your professional opinion how would you recommend I sell this item. Thanks and God Bless!!



I responded to him as follows,


The listing has been posted on a message board I and many other collectors frequent. Collectively we have ongoing concerns about fraud in the hobby. Since both the holder and the Mantle photo have no intrinsic value, dollars spent for the holder imply that a buyer is looking to profit from spending hundreds to get it. Your watchers and interest in your auction probably spiked after the listing was posted on our and perhaps other messages boards. I can easily accept from your response that you are not engaged in fraud, but may be inadvertently facilitating it. The right thing to do in my opinion would be to discontinue the auction and destroy the holder.


We'll see what his response is.

He has responded to this with the same message that others have received. My next question for him was

"Were you also honest when you tried the same trick in November 2013? Or was that a different card? Your credibility is evaporating."


To which he responded "I was honest in November 2013, which proves I have had the case for awhile."

Thanks Peter.

[Peter_Spaeth]

"You're credibility is evaporating."

And with that kind of grammar, so is yours.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

...maybe the famous net54 fraud check guy will buy it..

We're still waiting, Jake. Who is this person you refer to?

[almostdone]

Something like this actually happened to me few years ago and none of this even dawned on me. I had purchased a card and when it was shipped to me the seller put it in a PSA case with no flip in it to protect it from damage in shipping. It wasn't frosted. It just looked like two new halves that hadn't been used. He had a rubber band around it to keep it together. The tiny pins in the edge of the case that face the corresponding holes to line it up before sealing were still intact. If put together and squeezed slightly it actually stayed together.
I didn't think much about it except it was a good way to protect a card in transit. Since I had no real use for it I discarded it with the rest of the packaging.
I guess this sort of thing can happen occasionally. Scary to think what someone could do if a box of these plastic sides came out in the market. They have to be manufactured somewhere and I would bet it's not in house at PSA.
Kind of gives a new spin to the phrase "Buy the card, not the holder".

Drew

[Bestdj777]

I don't see why anyone would spend that money on a fake Mantle, even if they did have bad intentions. The "card" doesn't come close to resembling a PSA 8 with such a rough cut. I would think you could spend 20 bucks on a handful of graded, modern cards and take your shot at cracking them without tearing up the cases, like I'm assuming all of the other scammers do.

[xplainer]

Another thing to consider is that, somewhere, there is a proud owner of a real PSA 8. Little does he know, there will soon be a "twin" of his card floating around.

I checked the number, and it is a PSA 8 Mantle.

Does the seller not realize that by selling this, all his future sales will be in question?

This is crazier than the Jason Mars T206 Wagner.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

I don't see why anyone would spend that money on a fake Mantle, even if they did have bad intentions. The "card" doesn't come close to resembling a PSA 8 with such a rough cut. I would think you could spend 20 bucks on a handful of graded, modern cards and take your shot at cracking them without tearing up the cases, like I'm assuming all of the other scammers do.

what about someone getting another mantle reprint that's better....the issue isn't the mantle..the issue is the 'legit' holder..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

We're still waiting, Jake. Who is this person you refer to?

Presumably the guy Ian won't name?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Presumably the guy Ian won't name?

correct peter...was super hard to know what I was referring too..

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Presumably the guy Ian won't name?

So it's all about Ian now?

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

So it's all about Ian now?

Gee, I guess so? Pretty surprised to see my name pop up in this thread. No idea how being outright robbed of a large sum of money directly relates to this Mantle flip, but I guess when "it's all about" you, it just goes with territory.

(I know you're just joking Frank)

[JollyRoger]

What collector in his right mind is willing to pay $510 for a PICTURE of a card? Either the buyer failed to read the item description, or has plans to scam someone. As others have pointed out, that picture of the Mantle card looks nowhere near the assigned grade on the picture of the flip!

[Runscott]

Oh, okay. I need to work on my boyntonese.

[Eric72]

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