Update: What would you do...

[pgconboy]

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

So quick update here... i decided i just couldnt have the card in my collection... i would always wonder and feel bad selling to someone else without certainty it was unaltered. I decided to take the high route and write a polite email to Brent at PWCC. Here is what I wrote:

"Brent –

In light of the recent scandal with Gary Moser, I would like to return my T227 Ty Cobb PSA 1.5 purchased from you in April 2019. As your website states, PWCC is focused on “trading on trust”

This card was submitted by Gary Moser to PSA and then sold by Gary Moser through PWCC. I just can’t have a card like in my collection.

I trust you will do the right thing and accept my return and issue me a full refund.

Thank you kindly,

Taylor Hamilton"

Brent replied with this:

"Taylor,

The message boards have many things wrong. This card was not consigned by Gary Moser (just FYI). More importantly It also shows no signs of alteration, and as such this isn’t a card we can directly enforce our return policy.

These boards are out of control in many ways, and are defacing cards for little reason and I’m sorry for this slander against a card you own. If you’d like you can certainly always send the card to PSA for their reconfirmation of the grade and it’s accuracy. Soon we also hope to have a program in place where we can facilitate this review for cards which have been slandered on the boards. If you’d like to check back later this month we hope to have that option in place."

The slime coming off this guy is unreal. I trust anyone on the message boards more than I do this guy... any thoughts would be appreciated, is it time to start getting a class action lawsuit together? a flight up to Portland?

Best,

Taylor

Red Flags all around. I would start a return process through ebay/paypal stat.

[sportscardtheory]

Wow. Just wow on that response. Defiance instead of acceptance and helpfulness. Goes to show what we are dealing with. They are literally calling proven altered cards (not this one particularly) "slandered". What a train wreck. Call your lawyers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

This card was previously sold by Mile High in an SGC holder, unless I am confused, so remind me why you think it's a Moser card?

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This card was previously sold by Mile High in an SGC holder, unless I am confused, so remind me why you think it's a Moser card?

I have no idea if it is or isn't, but what does that even matter. Confidence that it's not is essentially nonexistent. Everything they sell is suspect if you have no certainty of it's origin. They destroyed their consumer confidence. To me, everything they sell is altered at this point. Not literally, but you get my drift.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I have no idea if it is or isn't, but what does that even matter. Confidence that it's not is essentially nonexistent. Everything they sell is suspect if you have no certainty of it's origin. They destroyed their consumer confidence. To me, everything they sell is altered at this point. Not literally, but you get my drift.

It looks fine to me, t's only a scan I know but it sure looks like a pure crossover. I am the last person on this planet to defend Brent, but he shouldn't be obligated to refund for a card if in fact it is not altered.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It looks fine to me, t's only a scan I know but it sure looks like a pure crossover. I am the last person on this planet to defend Brent, but he shouldn't be obligated to refund for a card if in fact it is not altered.

Yeah, and he can just send it in to PSA for a regrade if he's uncertain. lol Yikes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Yeah, and he can just send it in to PSA for a regrade if he's uncertain. lol Yikes.

He can also sell it. Yes the uncertainty sucks I am with you there. Or he could send to SGC. They have a crossover special apparently.

[T_Hamilton]

The fact I am having to spend time away from work, my family and other joys of life to deal with this slime ball enrage me. I have started the return process through eBay and PayPal. I would have been PWCC's biggest proponent if they ponied up and did the right thing. Instead they are driven by greed. There is no place for this in the hobby, let alone the world.

Here is the post from BO:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...highlight=t227

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

The fact I am having to spend time away from work, my family and other joys of life to deal with this slime ball enrage me. I have started the return process through eBay and PayPal. I would have been PWCC's biggest proponent if they ponied up and did the right thing. Instead they are driven by greed. There is no place for this in the hobby, let alone the world.

Here is the post from BO:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...highlight=t227

Yes, I posted elsewhere about the undue stress this is causing many of us. Awful.

[T_Hamilton]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He can also sell it. Yes the uncertainty sucks I am with you there. Or he could send to SGC. They have a crossover special apparently.

This just masks the problem in my opinion. I would hate to make this someone else's problem by submitting to SGC and then trying to resell.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

This just masks the problem in my opinion. I would hate to make this someone else's problem by submitting to SGC and then trying to resell.

Why do you think it's altered? And if you love the card why not ask SGC before you return it?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

This just masks the problem in my opinion. I would hate to make this someone else's problem by submitting to SGC and then trying to resell.

Brent is going to resell it anyhow, so it is still someone else's problem.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

This just masks the problem in my opinion. I would hate to make this someone else's problem by submitting to SGC and then trying to resell.

And also, what if SGC says its trimmed or altered. Then what. You're stuck with a card possibly worth about a quarter of it's graded value/what you paid.

[T_Hamilton]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Brent is going to resell it anyhow, so it is still someone else's problem.

And if he does the hope is he takes the loss when it goes for less... and he has to live with the choices he has made.

I won't resell it knowing what we all know... and even if I did, do you truly think I would get the price I paid for it based on allegations, facts and evidence of his scam?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

And if he does the hope is he takes the loss when it goes for less... and he has to live with the choices he has made.

I won't resell it knowing what we all know... and even if I did, do you truly think I would get the price I paid for it based on allegations, facts and evidence of his scam?

I know you won't do it. As for price, I doubt the scam affects much at this point. Very few guys would even research the card to tie it back to PWCC. We have seen in this forum at least one person annoyed that Brent took down a card from the current auction because he wanted to bid on it. More likely you wouldn't get the same price because PWCC gets higher prices than the rest of us.

[T_Hamilton]

As someone who has been pretty pissed off with this whole situation, I also wanted to keep the group informed...

I submitted a request to ebay and PayPal about an hour ago. PWCC responded right away with this message via ebay:

"Thank you for your participation in our auction and we understand your concerns and we are committed to address any and all issues like this. Please rest assured that for the vast majority of professionally graded items the cards are properly graded and their authenticity is not in question. If you have evidence that a card was altered, we will happily send it in to the grading company for their review and if there is a problem with the item you are entitled to a full refund through our Marketplace Guarantee. If you reach out to our customer service team at their email cs@pwccmarketplace.com we can begin the process for you. Thank you for your understanding."

Then within 30 minutes of receiving that message, I got this message (which would have saved us all a lot of time and pounding on our keyboards):

"Good news! Your return request is approved. The seller will provide you with a return shipping label to send the item back."

I hope we can get this hobby back to a place where it is fun... where we all have the feeling of ripping open packs as kids... and can move away from those trying to take advantage of the hobby and ruin beautiful artifacts of the past.

[Leon]

One small step...

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

As someone who has been pretty pissed off with this whole situation, I also wanted to keep the group informed...

I submitted a request to ebay and PayPal about an hour ago. PWCC responded right away with this message via ebay:

"Thank you for your participation in our auction and we understand your concerns and we are committed to address any and all issues like this. Please rest assured that for the vast majority of professionally graded items the cards are properly graded and their authenticity is not in question. If you have evidence that a card was altered, we will happily send it in to the grading company for their review and if there is a problem with the item you are entitled to a full refund through our Marketplace Guarantee. If you reach out to our customer service team at their email cs@pwccmarketplace.com we can begin the process for you. Thank you for your understanding."

Then within 30 minutes of receiving that message, I got this message (which would have saved us all a lot of time and pounding on our keyboards):

"Good news! Your return request is approved. The seller will provide you with a return shipping label to send the item back."

I hope we can get this hobby back to a place where it is fun... where we all have the feeling of ripping open packs as kids... and can move away from those trying to take advantage of the hobby and ruin beautiful artifacts of the past.

[drcy]

As they take only a percentage of the sales price, if lots people returned their cards for refund PWCC could quickly be in financial trouble

[Rhotchkiss]

Great result Taylor. My T227, which I bought privately, is being sent into PSA (with one other card) for review under their guaranty program. I’ll tell you all how it shakes out.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Great result Taylor. My T227, which I bought privately, is being sent into PSA (with one other card) for review under their guaranty program. I’ll tell you all how it shakes out.

Did you include the prior picture?

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Did you include the prior picture?

I did actually - SGC and PSA side by side in same blowout thread. I am not actually sending it in - I have never submitted anything to psa (have crossed a few things to SGC at shows); I have given it to a friend who sends lots of cards into psa regularly. But the card is going to psa and I have included a pic of it in the SGC flip.

I will update you in what, 90 days?

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by T_Hamilton

So quick update here... i decided i just couldnt have the card in my collection... i would always wonder and feel bad selling to someone else without certainty it was unaltered. I decided to take the high route and write a polite email to Brent at PWCC. Here is what I wrote:

"Brent –

In light of the recent scandal with Gary Moser, I would like to return my T227 Ty Cobb PSA 1.5 purchased from you in April 2019. As your website states, PWCC is focused on “trading on trust”

This card was submitted by Gary Moser to PSA and then sold by Gary Moser through PWCC. I just can’t have a card like in my collection.

I trust you will do the right thing and accept my return and issue me a full refund.

Thank you kindly,

Taylor Hamilton"

Brent replied with this:

"Taylor,

The message boards have many things wrong. This card was not consigned by Gary Moser (just FYI). More importantly It also shows no signs of alteration, and as such this isn’t a card we can directly enforce our return policy.

These boards are out of control in many ways, and are defacing cards for little reason and I’m sorry for this slander against a card you own. If you’d like you can certainly always send the card to PSA for their reconfirmation of the grade and it’s accuracy. Soon we also hope to have a program in place where we can facilitate this review for cards which have been slandered on the boards. If you’d like to check back later this month we hope to have that option in place."

The slime coming off this guy is unreal. I trust anyone on the message boards more than I do this guy... any thoughts would be appreciated, is it time to start getting a class action lawsuit together? a flight up to Portland?

Best,

Taylor

So Brent knows which cards were submitted by Moser. That's good to know. I'm sure that admission will be important in the coming months.

[T_Hamilton]

ended up getting my refund yesterday, whew!

Hope this helps anyone else that has recently purchased a Moser trimmed card through PWCC.

[Exhibitman]

Great news!

[ejharrington]

I own a card that made the Moser "list". I studied the card for awhile and can't see anything. I just mailed it to SGC to see if it grades out. I wlll let people know how it all works out.