Alteration vs. Conservation Defined

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by conor912

"What are you gonna do, LaChance? Shoot us all?

No, Ace. Just you."

Great line, great movie. This could turn into a complete and total Barfarama

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah I mean just look at some of the people here who seem, what's the word, unmoved (?) by all that's been revealed and continues to be revealed.

It might have something to do with the name calling, bullying, and threats that have occurred from calling out the PWCC and other scum bags in the past.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It might have something to do with the name calling, bullying, and threats that have occurred from calling out the PWCC and other scum bags in the past.

Agreed. Just because hundreds of guys aren't chiming in, torches in hand, doesn't mean they aren't aware and concerned. Some people, understandably, have things more important to do and/or don't want to be called an idiot on an online discussion board, which is, sadly, likely most of the time.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by conor912

Agreed. Just because hundreds of guys aren't chiming in, torches in hand, doesn't mean they aren't aware and concerned. Some people, understandably, have things more important to do and/or don't want to be called an idiot on an online discussion board, which is, sadly, likely most of the time.

OR...maybe some of those not chiming in are part of the problem???

[Peter_Spaeth]

My comment, and perhaps I was not clear, was more about the active defenders.

[bobbyw8469]

Even though I been in this hobby 15 or so years, I guess I am still a relatively newbie compared to some of these guys. I will say one thing - whitman111 has mad a freaking KILLING!!! We're talking hand over fist type money. Is this guy currently employed?

[conor912]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

OR...maybe some of those not chiming in are part of the problem???

I think that's unfair, but thanks for proving my point.

[Republicaninmass]

I'd suggest checking sold items, if anyone on the board has dealt with him. It could expose even more cards

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by conor912

I think that's unfair, but thanks for proving my point.

Wellllllll...its possible!!!!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

First, I’d disagree with you strongly on the chances of a criminal investigation. Strongly.

Next, Ive sued Mastro and Doug and they folded in a matter of days. With Brent, he’d be forced in litigation to turn over his emails, records, etc. and I can’t imagine he’s that crazy, although who knows. Peter does class actions and presuming we could slow down his posting output, and I’d happily help him on such a case. The more I think about it the more I’d be interested in such a case.

I've been talking with some journalist friends trying to find someone who knows at least the basics of the hobby who would be interested in a helluva investigative opportunity. I would think such a piece (or series) might draw some law enforcement attention, especially if it's in a big enough publication.

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I've been talking with some journalist friends trying to find someone who knows at least the basics of the hobby who would be interested in a helluva investigative opportunity. I would think such a piece (or series) might draw some law enforcement attention, especially if it's in a big enough publication.

You would think, but they might still be too busy reporting that amazing Ruth Shotwell "find"! Media did a lot of background checking on that one. Wonder what Mr. Ball is up to these days?

[peterose4hof]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Do you think there will be a lot more to follow, or are we nearing the end of the bunch?

The guys on blowout just found a new run of certs connected to Moser. Leads me to believe many more are to come.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by calvindog

First, I’d disagree with you strongly on the chances of a criminal investigation. Strongly.

Next, Ive sued Mastro and Doug and they folded in a matter of days. With Brent, he’d be forced in litigation to turn over his emails, records, etc. and I can’t imagine he’s that crazy, although who knows. Peter does class actions and presuming we could slow down his posting output, and I’d happily help him on such a case. The more I think about it the more I’d be interested in such a case.

The more I think about it, the more interested I'd be to see you take it on.

Just for fun.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

The guys on blowout just found a new run of certs connected to Moser. Leads me to believe many more are to come.

And more modern sold through PWCC. And the beat goes on. And the beat goes on.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295880

[jad22]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...290614&page=65


Geez. That’s quite in jump in price for the Russell rookie.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Even though I been in this hobby 15 or so years, I guess I am still a relatively newbie compared to some of these guys. I will say one thing - whitman111 has mad a freaking KILLING!!! We're talking hand over fist type money. Is this guy currently employed?

Yes, By Brent Mastro

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jad22

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...290614&page=65


Geez. That’s quite in jump in price for the Russell rookie.

And this is why I believe PSA is part of the scam. Who is going to spend $7700 on a card, risk cracking it out and doctoring it knowing anything could go wrong? Who's going to risk screwing up a $7700 card, unless you knew for sure it would get a number grade?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

And this is why I believe PSA is part of the scam. Who is going to spend $7700 on a card, risk cracking it out and doctoring it knowing anything could go wrong? Who's going to risk screwing up a $7700 card, unless you knew for sure it would get a number grade?

Someone making hundreds of thousands would not view it as a huge risk.

[jad22]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

And this is why I believe PSA is part of the scam. Who is going to spend $7700 on a card, risk cracking it out and doctoring it knowing anything could go wrong? Who's going to risk screwing up a $7700 card, unless you knew for sure it would get a number grade?

They would have to be quite confident in their “skill of the craft” to do this.

[perezfan]

…. or have an "in" with the TPG.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And more modern sold through PWCC. And the beat goes on. And the beat goes on.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295880

Some of those look to be big enough trims that they should have never cleared even a basic min size check.

[Peter_Spaeth]

A musical interlude from the Andrea True Connection.

More more more
How do you like it
How do you like it
More more more

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295892

[vintagetoppsguy]

Card doctors are making more $ than regular doctors.

Dad: "Son, what do you want to be when you grow up?"
Son: "I want to be a doctor...a card doctor. "

[Peter_Spaeth]

On and on
On and on
On and on
-- Stephen Bishop

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295897

BTW Stephen Bishop played the loser playing the guitar on the stairs of the frat house that was smashed by John Belushi in Animal House.

[calvindog]

Really remarkable how all the card doctors use Brent almost exclusively to sell their altered crap. I wonder how they all figured out independently to use PWCC and not Probstein. Gee, if I didn’t know that Brent was doing such great things for the hobby I’d think he conspired with the card doctors on these sales.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Really remarkable how all the card doctors use Brent almost exclusively to sell their altered crap. I wonder how they all figured out independently to use PWCC and not Probstein. Gee, if I didn’t know that Brent was doing such great things for the hobby I’d think he conspired with the card doctors on these sales.

Au contraire, PWCC was used as a "front for bad behavior." Just ask them.

And I quote.

"We at PWCC will not tolerate our brand’s use as a front for bad behavior. That day is over. Today is a new day, based on facts and enforceable policies for which we expect the entire market to hold us accountable."

[Republicaninmass]

Maybe the genius monitoring the shilling, can get a promotion to enforce these new policies

[jad22]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Really remarkable how all the card doctors use Brent almost exclusively to sell their altered crap. I wonder how they all figured out independently to use PWCC and not Probstein. Gee, if I didn’t know that Brent was doing such great things for the hobby I’d think he conspired with the card doctors on these sales.

I wonder if they use the vault.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Originally Posted by jad22

I wonder if they use the vault.

You mean the vAuLT?

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by perezfan

…. or have an "in" with the TPG.

Some people scofffed at David for suggesting that the graders are in cahoots with the trimmers. I think it is happening.

Look at SSI's statement on Blowout where he describes his relationship with Beckett. Is there one grader at Beckett who is passing along these trim jobs?

Here is the link: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...276110&page=10

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Some people scofffed at David for suggesting that the graders are in cahoots with the trimmers. I think it is happening.

Look at SSI's statement on Blowout where he describes his relationship with Beckett. Is there one grader at Beckett who is passing along these trim jobs?

Here is the link: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...276110&page=10

One would hope PSA and Beckett are taking a close look at the submissions where these bad cards are coming from to figure out where they came from and who graded them and why they got through.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Nice conservation here, worthy of a sticker. If anyone here purchased a PSA 2 T227 Cobb from PWCC, take note.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1642

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nice conservation here, worthy of a sticker. If anyone here purchased a PSA 2 T227 Cobb from PWCC, take note.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1642

Ruh roh...shits getting real here!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Ruh roh...shits getting real here!!!

Too close to home, eh?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nice conservation here, worthy of a sticker. If anyone here purchased a PSA 2 T227 Cobb from PWCC, take note.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1642

I like how Brent advertised the paper loss when the card was sold to Moser but conveniently forgot about it three months later.

Where are the vault boys? I picture them on a white knuckle flight to Oregon as I type.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I like how Brent advertised the paper loss when the card was sold to Moser but conveniently forgot about it three months later.

Where are the vault boys? I picture them on a white knuckle flight to Oregon as I type.

"We have searched this card thoroughly and while we do locate a couple faint wrinkles or creases, we can't locate the rational behind what appears to be an overly conservative assessment."

whereas before

"An exceedingly light crease to the lower right corner and minor paper loss near Cobb's belt affects the grade."

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"We have searched this card thoroughly and while we do locate a couple faint wrinkles or creases, we can't locate the rational behind what appears to be an overly conservative assessment."

whereas before

"An exceedingly light crease to the lower right corner and minor paper loss near Cobb's belt affects the grade."

Damn. Brent really did a good thing for the hobby there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Damn. Brent really did a good thing for the hobby there.

Maybe he thought the paper loss had been fixed?

[CobbSpikedMe]

Conserved Peter. It's different than fixed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Conserved Peter. It's different than fixed.

.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe he thought the paper loss had been fixed?

conserved

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

conserved

.

[BLongley]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe he thought the paper loss had been fixed?

One of my favorites is when Brent talks about the 62 PSA 8 Mantle as one of the nicest he has ever brokered.... whoops turns out he sold that exact same card as a PSA 7.5 to Moser 3 months earlier...

And then he has that other Goudey where he mentions they have been selling a collection that has come in raw over the years... and then the card in an SGC holder is found being sold...to... you guessed it Moser....

And then Bob Block who sold an estimated $1mm in trimmed cards through PWCC... it’s never ending....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Mercy. Not just about the card, you have to read through to the end.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1681

[ullmandds]

Oh c’mon pete...brents a good guy and is good for the hobby...he’d never do such a thing??? I’d put the odds of brent talking/showing up to the dinner at 5000/1.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Mercy. Not just about the card, you have to read through to the end.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1681

Certainly sounds like Brent and Moser were more than just acquaintances based on that guys story but that might be tough to prove if he does lawyer up?

It's unbelievable how far reaching this story is getting. Hockey, football, baseketball, and Look and See cards are what has been uncovered already and like a couple have stated over on BO, this is just getting started.

[jad22]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Mercy. Not just about the card, you have to read through to the end.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1681

That and the Cousy rookie.

[calvindog]

If Brent does any more good things for the hobby he’s going to end up in prisons.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

If Brent does any more good things for the hobby he’s going to end up in prisons.

More than one?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

More than one?

LOL oops. Maybe!